Disappointed patch didnt add proper scaling

[mindw0rk2]

Disappointed patch didnt add proper scaling

After playing WItcher 3 with level scaling mod and now, after patch broke it, having to play vanilla game I can see how flawed vanilla is. Instead of giving players freedom to explore and do tasks in any order its predefinied route every new game. See a monster that higher level then you? Nope you cant fight it. Go grind exp first. Zzzz.

You added monsters upping level for NG+, was it really so hard to implement (optional) proper level scaling so that all enemies scaled to Geralt's level with bosses being +5? Whats the point of "hide enemy health bars if you cant use it since risking to encounter foes with much higher level?

 

[jj284b]

i think this is very easy to fix. You can use the ingame upscaling, but you will need to remove bonuses for high and deadly monsters.. delete those values (or adjust them down a bit) and those beasts will be killable even with lower level character instead of getting some artificial bonuses because they are +6 level higher than you... beauty of it is, you only need to edit single xml file.. no need for some complicated scripts, that will render your game incompatible with other mods, or after new patch comes out...


for example, i did this in monster_base_abl_new.xml :


<ability name="MonsterLevelBonusLow">
<tags> "base" </tags>
</ability>

<ability name="MonsterLevelBonusHigh">
<tags> "base" </tags>
<experience type="base" always_random="false" min="20" max="20" />
<essence type="mult" always_random="false" min="1.0" max="1.0" />
<staminaRegen type="mult" always_random="false" min="0.2" max="0.2" />
<attack_power type="mult" always_random="false" min="0.5" max="0.5" />
</ability>

<ability name="MonsterLevelBonusDeadly">
<tags> "base" </tags>
<experience type="base" always_random="false" min="40" max="40" />
<essence type="mult" always_random="false" min="2.0" max="2.0" />
<staminaRegen type="mult" always_random="false" min="0.25" max="0.25" />
<attack_power type="mult" always_random="false" min="1.0" max="1.0" />
</ability>


this gives deadly enemies 200% bonus to essence and 100% bonus to attack power, while high enemies have attack power increased by 50% and health by 100%. All additional resistances are gone, monsters are now as resistant as their definition makes them to be... they are still slightly harder to kill, and more powerful, but without any unfair buffs

 

[cyberpunkforever]

it's part of the game design, if you ca kill every enemie everywhere at any time you will be overleveled quickly and then there is no balance, what's th point of grinding xp fast? you will get enough xp as you do the "recommended" playthrough, if you can't have something that means you don't need it at the moment, you can still explore but stay away from those hard enemies

 

[mindw0rk2]

it's part of the game design, if you ca kill every enemie everywhere at any time you will be overleveled quickly and then there is no balance, what's th point of grinding xp fast? you will get enough xp as you do the "recommended" playthrough, if you can't have something that means you don't need it at the moment, you can still explore but stay away from those hard enemies

Outlevel what? Scaling means monsters are always of Geralt's level. You cant outlevel anything.
The only difference is with scaling its RPG with true freedom. You kill what you want, you do what you want, you feel like an experienced witcher who with right preparation can deal with anything. With vanilla experience its "Go to A then do B and follow to C. YOu can kill this pack of ghouls but you cant kill that even thought they look exactly the same"

 

[moonknightgog]

After playing WItcher 3 with level scaling mod and now, after patch broke it, having to play vanilla game I can see how flawed vanilla is. Instead of giving players freedom to explore and do tasks in any order its predefinied route every new game. See a monster that higher level then you? Nope you cant fight it. Go grind exp first. Zzzz.

You added monsters upping level for NG+, was it really so hard to implement (optional) proper level scaling so that all enemies scaled to Geralt's level with bosses being +5? Whats the point of "hide enemy health bars if you cant use it since risking to encounter foes with much higher level?

Level scaling is stupid. Period.
Scaling everyone to the player's level doesn't make sense if you have a player progression based on skills, crafting and levelling.

 

[mindw0rk2]

Level scaling is stupid. Period.
Scaling everyone to the player's level doesn't make sense if you have a player progression based on skills, crafting and levelling.

Scaling doesnt prevent progression. You still get perks, new tools, more powerful gear, etc. It just removes artificial level blocks to provide more freedom to exploration

 

[Zultre]

Scaling doesnt prevent progression. You still get perks, new tools, more powerful gear, etc. It just removes artificial level blocks to provide more freedom to exploration

I disagree , When encountering an extremely powerful enemy it adds to exploration more than creating an artificial block , it gives the player a goal to reach - Play until you are able to beat that enemy , it creates a sense of accomplishment. If every enemy was the same level as Geralt it would become boring really fast - It would render the level up mechanic pointless ..... Sure you get more tools and perks but that's all stupid stuff if a level 50 Geralt still struggles to put down a simple drowner.

 

[wichat]

scaling (all) monsters could be good idea...but not for me. Geralt is an intelligent creature, so he is able to learn and progress in few days, even hours. But monsters? do they get more powerfull by learning like an intelligent creature?

An intelligent creature (like humans, elves,etc) can be trainend to be an expert hunter, trainning his skills and it's always improving. Monsters don't. A drowner will be always a drowner. And a witcher uses to kill no-intelligence monsters; high vampire is those rare intelligent monster ,i.e.. So, for me personally, scalling monsters is an useless and incongruous option for my way of playing TW.

 

[Thundebolt]

scaling (all) monsters could be good idea...but not for me. Geralt is an intelligent creature, so he is able to learn and progress in few days, even hours. But monsters? do they get more powerfull by learning like an intelligent creature?

An intelligent creature (like humans, elves,etc) can be trainend to be an expert hunter, trainning his skills and it's always improving. Monsters don't. A drowner will be always a drowner. And a witcher uses to kill no-intelligence monsters; high vampire is those rare intelligent monster ,i.e.. So, for me personally, scalling monsters is an useless and incongruous option for my way of playing TW.

So it makes sense to you, that experienced witcher during a few weeks has learned much more than during his entire life? A few weeks ago drowner was a challenge and now its one-hit enemy. Feeling of progression? I'll pass.
And that great side-effect of no scaling in game - makes one bandit with stick pece of cake, and another one - killer of witchers.
For me realistic and satisfying feeling of progression can be achive only with level-scaling. When you gain new skills, craft better equipment, the game is changing and fights become easier but sitll challenging.

 

[wichat]

It makes sense if we still talking about a witcher who survived to the final trial. And yes,you can learn how to drive a complex device in a morning,rather than a fish learns what a boat is made of.

And soldiers/bandits levels? Yes,of course, not everybody has had a proper training, as in real life.Some of them can be simple peasants and osther professional fighters.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

Outlevel what? Scaling means monsters are always of Geralt's level. You cant outlevel anything.
The only difference is with scaling its RPG with true freedom. You kill what you want, you do what you want, you feel like an experienced witcher who with right preparation can deal with anything. With vanilla experience its "Go to A then do B and follow to C. YOu can kill this pack of ghouls but you cant kill that even thought they look exactly the same"

if you do what you want and kill what you want you will be overleveled and then the pople complaints the game is too easy the enemies are too easy

 

[mindw0rk2]

if you do what you want and kill what you want you will be overleveled and then the pople complaints the game is too easy the enemies are too easy

/sigh. Again, you cant be "overleveled" when whole world is your level. If Geralt grows to 80 level, all monsters will be 80 level.
Game wont be easier, it will be more balanced. Since in vanilla lower level monsters you kill in 1 hit, higher level monsters almost impossible to kill.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

/sigh. Again, you cant be "overleveled" when whole world is your level. If Geralt grows to 80 level, all monsters will be 80 level.
Game wont be easier, it will be more balanced. Since in vanilla lower level monsters you kill in 1 hit, higher level monsters almost impossible to kill.

/sigh again, you cant be overleveled when the whole world is your level, but you do can be overleveled when the whole world is lower or same level and you can kill everything, then you will be overleveled

 

[TheCruxDef]

First, there is an option for level scaling. If somebody already said that, I apologize.

Second, my g0d man. Level scaling!!!! Are you crazy? Remember the absolute hate and venom that flowed from the level scaling in Oblivion (maybe Skyrim as well, don't remember)? Where bandits would be in Daedric armor? Mentally deficient, to an extreme.

Just say no, no, no, to level scaling.

Nonetheless, the developers were nice enough to give you the option.

 

[flyingsaucers]

First, there is an option for level scaling. If somebody already said that, I apologize.

Second, my g0d man. Level scaling!!!! Are you crazy? Remember the absolute hate and venom that flowed from the level scaling in Oblivion (maybe Skyrim as well, don't remember)? Where bandits would be in Daedric armor? Mentally deficient, to an extreme.

Just say no, no, no, to level scaling.

Nonetheless, the developers were nice enough to give you the option.

There's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. Oblivion did it the wrong way.

To me, level scaling makes sense for the reasons given. One batch of ghouls shouldn't be radically more powerful than another, identical batch of ghouls, and it makes even less sense with bandits.

That doesn't mean that some enemies can't be inherently more challenging than others. A fiend, for example, will always have a lot of HP and very powerful attacks, and can kill Geralt quickly if the player gets sloppy. A bandit will not be a match for Geralt, but neither will you be able to tear through 6 bandits in one swoop, either.

The OP is correct in stating that the current design forces the player to approach quests in a limited order. I haven't enabled level scaling yet (though I plan to) so I'm not sure how it's 'broken,' but the option should theoretically fix the issue.

 

[Meretrelle]

Upscaling Is Broken

Generally upscaling has always worked globally meaning you get upscaled enemies, loot and XP.

Here we get only upscaled enemies and that's it. It doesn't make sense coz if I have upscaling enabled it won't make any difference how fast I can get new levels coz enemies will always be at my level..Overlevelling is not a problem anymore.

It's all about challenge you say? Then why disable XP\loot upscaling if it doesn't affect challenge in any way?

Essentially we are limited to two options when we outlevel most quests to a certain degree:

1) continue playing as it is and roflstomp everyone without the satisfaction of getting proper XP and proper loot
2) upscale all enemies to our level and play without .the satisfaction of getting proper XP and proper loot

Seeing as upscaled XP\loot wouldn't affect challenge in any way within an upscaled environment I don't understand why remove it..

 

[benjaminp]

I'm not challenging the concept of "upscaling" but the feature does appear to be buggy. Many situations higher level enemies have gone below 10th level in skellige and hearts of stone novigrad. playing 1.2 on ps4 in ng+ at level with blood and wine installed.

 

[mindw0rk2]

First, there is an option for level scaling. If somebody already said that, I apologize.

Ya, I was excited when I saw it. But turned out it doest downscale high level monsters to witcher's level so doesnt fix problems. Second, as others pointed out, even upscaling is buggy.

It's all about challenge you say? Then why disable XP\loot upscaling if it doesn't affect challenge in any way?
Essentially we are limited to two options when we outlevel most quests to a certain degree:
1) continue playing as it is and roflstomp everyone without the satisfaction of getting proper XP and proper loot
2) upscale all enemies to our level and play without .the satisfaction of getting proper XP and proper loot
Seeing as upscaled XP\loot wouldn't affect challenge in any way within an upscaled environment I don't understand why remove it..

Im playing fresh start now and I encounter blocked content everywhere. Went exploring, saw place of interest - NOPE. There is mini boss 10 levels higher who 2 shots me while I barely scratch him. Saw ruins nearby. NOPE. High level mobs here, come back when you grow up. It feels like there are more places I cant visit then those I can. It works with linear MMO progression when you level characters through zones in specific order. But in Witcher 3 there is huge map to explore and no pointers where to go it is just irritating. When you leveled enough you already forget about places you previously visited. I really miss the freedom Skyrim gave me. So I hope if CPR reads this they avoid this mistake in Cyberpunk 2077.

As for "lack of challenge". Its not true. When I played with scaling mod, fights were still very challenging on Death March (all bosses and minibosses were +5 of Geralts level), but anything was managable = no blocked content and true freedom to explore.

 

[Zultre]

Ya, I was excited when I saw it. But turned out it doest downscale high level monsters to witcher's level so doesnt fix problems. Second, as others pointed out, even upscaling is buggy.

But why would you want "boss" monsters to be on your level from the word go? It just doesn't make sense ... If that was the case then Geralt could just have walked up to the King of the Wild Hunt , kicked him in the nuts , taken Ciri and boom they lived happily every after. Same principle applies to low level enemies like drowners. I don't think it makes much sense that a drowner is the same level as the king of the wild hunt or a Chort? Fist fights in Velen , yep same difficulty as the main boss fights.

 

[mindw0rk2]

But why would you want "boss" monsters to be on your level from the word go?

Because... read my reasons above. Leveled bosses are still way stronger then common monsters like drowners.