Dragon Age: Inquisition

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Screw that, dude. Why aim so low. It's most certainly important. Just because having a barely passable story is enough to sell a dating sim with magic and swords to people, doesn't mean story isn't important. I cannot trudge through another game with weak ass story telling. I won't. If that's all you want, then fine, but not me.

Mass Effect 2 passed because half the story was meeting these awesome and unique characters. Won't lie, DA: I doesn't look like that's a possibility for them.
 
Dat shitty fighting choreography, holy crap it's so bad... the initial parts of the trailer with all the explosions looked like something Michael Bay would masturbate to.
 
Screw that, dude. Why aim so low. It's most certainly important. Just because having a barely passable story is enough to sell a dating sim with magic and swords to people, doesn't mean story isn't important. I cannot trudge through another game with weak ass story telling. I won't. If that's all you want, then fine, but not me.

Mass Effect 2 passed because half the story was meeting these awesome and unique characters. Won't lie, DA: I doesn't look like that's a possibility for them.

When I say characters, I don't mean I am interested solely in dating them, sten was not dateable in DA:O and he was still one of my favorites.
 
Well...

This thread went places, I see. Let's not (continue to) get into community vs. community discussions, okay? Be that TW v DA, PC v Console, AvP etc.

EDIT: And continuing the discussion with a little bit at the end calling for an end to it won't cut it. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a bunch of posts to delete...
 
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@Cormacolindor

Anyways, I think "old" Bioware games were about story very much. Baldurs Gate and KOTOR were about story. Jade Empire was about story. Hell, even Mass Effect is much about story. But to me characters are part of the story and not something seperated. A well crafted story is always about characters and character interaction. That's the core of a good story. Problem is that characters in latest Bioware games, especially Dragon Age, were not really complex or interesting imo. And even those with potential weren't used to their potential.
 
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@Cormacolindor

Anyways, I think "old" Bioware games were about story very much. Baldurs Gate and KOTOR were about story. Jade Empire was about story. Hell, even Mass Effect is much about story. But to me characters are part of the story and not something seperated. A well crafted story is always about characters and character interaction. That's the core of a good story. Problem is that characters in latest Bioware games, especially Dragon Age, were not really complex or interesting imo. And even those with potential weren't used to their potential.

Regardless of what you want, I think it's clear from the trailers that we are going to get something similar to DA:O, meaning a big bad and we are going to have to unite the forces of the world. I think it worked in Origins and I think it can work again, especially since we are going to be actual leaders. Whether they succeed remains to be seen but I am willing to give them a last chance.
 
It worked in Origins because we had excellent characters both good guys/gals and bad to distract us from the practically fairytale plot. The characters made the story.
 
The trailers have all been meh.

If I'm honest, everything I've bought since DAO- DLCs, DA2, novels, comics- has been because of nostalgia for that game, and except for Awakening, everything has been a disappointment. The world is paper-thin and Bioware has concentrated too much on the social justice rainbow and button awesome to the neglect of basics. Or maybe it really is just because the world wasn't compelling enough to sustain a whole series. Honestly, I don't see much different here. And like the dupe I am, I'm probably going to buy it anyway, still from nostalgia over DAO.
 
It really shouldn't have. Like I said earlier, I was wondering how they'd ever make a sequel to this after I beat Origins. I honestly wish they never did.
 
It worked in Origins because we had excellent characters both good guys/gals and bad to distract us from the practically fairytale plot. The characters made the story.
Hm, I don't agree on these excellent characters in Origins. Bioware imo created some very nice characters for Mass Effect and compared to that, the character writing in the Dragon Age series is just lacking. Maybe that had something to do with the "wooden" presentation and technical execution of Origins but that's probably not the only reason. I think Dragon Age's characters are caught between Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect and they have a hard stand there. Bioware cut back text and therefore the possibility of depth and complexity of the characters (coming from BG2) but they also never reached the presentation and emotional engagement of the Mass Effect series. Dragon Age is somewhere in between and as a kind of hybrid (which is not only true for story and characters but almost for every other aspect of the game, e.g. combat) it's hard for it to rise above in something. While you can argue that Mass Effect was mainly a "bro story" of all too likeable characters Bioware at least achieved in making them memorable, even in a cheesy way but that's better than nothing. Imo they didn't achieve the same with any Dragon Age character.

Another problem is that Bioware's typical story pattern has become too worn out and overused imo. It gets harder and harder to overlook and excuse that obvious weakness with every new game they release with the same basic story patern, no matter which characters they put into the game.

One major flaw of storytelling and character design in newer Bioware games is imo that they are always centered around the main character as "the most important person in universe". That's imho never a good starting point for complex and realistic storytelling. Of course it's also not that enjoyable to play someone who isn't important or meaningful at all but this one guy who has to save the world story limits possiblities and complexity of storytelling. If you start your story that way there is of course little space for inventing companions in another way than just "help the hero to save the world". That worked for Mass Effect because Bioware managed to emotionally engage players by good presentation, well done player agency and just (over-)likeable characters that gave the whole thing the style of a "road (or better spaceship) movie" (I guess that's one of the core reasons why so many people were angry about the end of ME3, breaking that kind of atmosphere the rest of the series was built upon). But I think Bioware never reached the same emotional engagement with Dragon Age causing players to overlook the structural weaknesses of storytelling...

But of course that's not only Bioware's failure but an industry wide problem. One of the main issues here is hyper-sensationalism. The danger in games have to be bigger and more deadly in each new game. You can't even just save yourself, or your family or just doing your job. Today you have at least save the country, better the whole universe. There is little space for complex human interactions with such a crucial and heroic job to do. It's the hero's journey in its most extreme form without much chance for (human) failure or the exploration of human motives other than how to overcome personal doubts on the way of becoming the world's biggest super hero. Side characters are just side people here bostering the main hero on his way. They are just "used" to enable him to fulfil his task instead of being real characters following an own agenda. These "personal quests" from companions Bioware came up with are no substitute for characters with a real character and agenda. It's only an illusion to give you some emotional engagement in their life without making them complex or deep characters. In the end, their job is to help you to do you job as the heor. I admit that this is a general problem of party-based RPGs but I think Bioware is so experienced in that kind of RPGs that there is little excuse that they haven't improved on the formular since Baldurs Gate. They even dumbed it down by cutting most of characters's depth by cutting most of the text which was used to create deeper characters. You can't achieve the same with some spoken lines of voice acting, especially if your tech is not really suited for that (maybe that's better in Inquisition but Origins was clearly lacking here).

To put it that way, Witcher 2 was a game centered almost completely around characters, which means Geralt AND the main NPCs. Dragon Age instead is almost solely centered around the main hero with everyone else only interacting with him instead of interacting with each other or the world itself. I hope Inquisition improves on that (at least they cut Leliana and Morrigan from the companions list so let's see if they can change something here) but I have huge doubts given Bioware's general design vision for the Dragon Age series and their latest track record...
 
^ I think Dragon Age party members (in Origins, at least) are very well written characters. I think this probably comes down to personal taste because I really didn't find the characters to be badly written or wooden.
 
Exactly what? It may be premature, but I'd bet money that DA: I's character roster won't be anywhere on league with the original. So far they all sound pretty damn snoozeville.

And characters making the story... still gives importance to a story.

Of course it does, the plot triggers the conflict, which in turn puts cultures and characters in interesting situations.

As for the DA:I characters, we know very little about them so I don't wish to comment on that. I am simply willing to give them a chance, nothing more, based on the fact that they are clearly trying a lot harder after DA2.Whether they succeed or not remains to be seen. Remember that DA2 was put up in about an year and a half, while they have been working on DA:I since 2011 I think.
 
^ I think Dragon Age party members (in Origins, at least) are very well written characters. I think this probably comes down to personal taste because I really didn't find the characters to be badly written or wooden.

Agreed. Not much more for me to say than that. Whether people think they're good or not, and I think most here would agree they were in Origins, one can still tell the difference between Origins characters and Dragon Age 2's.

@Cormacolindor, I am willing to give them a chance. You've seen me defending the game series from others when their criticism got a little too far off on the bullshit radar. I'll give them a chance, but I have to comment on what I've seen thus far, and thus far I'm not impressed or hopeful. We've still heard nothing of the quality of the story or even the characters, not even from people who had the honor of playing the game already. One of the things they repeated is they haven't seen much of or thought much of the story, and they've said nothing about the characters. Couple that with the blandest trailer they've had so far, and it's easy to see why I stand where I do.

Though I don't agree the earlier trailers were meh. Not with my boo Morrigan whooping ass, lol. That trailer was awesome. Game trailers don't get that exciting usually, and dragon age origins' and even Dragon Age 2's was pretty dang good as far as game trailers go.

edit: We should all be glad they at least didn't come with a fucking Eminem or Jay Z track. Lord... Battlefield and Call of Duty's trailers are the worst.
 
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After the collosal failure of DA2, the last thing they want is story information to be misinterpreted.

If you think BF and COD with eminem is bad, check out the new Mortal Kombat trailer...so out of place.

The new DA:I trailer was...ok. Nothing special.
 
I honestly don't know why you all praise Origins that much. I just replayed the whole game and it's nice but nothing special. Way worse than classic games of the genre like Baldur's Gate 2 in almost every aspect, including gameplay, art design and writing (general storytelling, quest design and characters). I guess it's because many modern gamers are too young and Origins was the first game of the kind they know and grew up with. For an older semester like me Origins was already a step down and that's maybe because I have another opinion on the game than many others. Or maybe I just have bigger standards and demands for storytelling in general, who knows...

Though I don't agree the earlier trailers were meh. Not with my boo Morrigan whooping ass, lol. That trailer was awesome. Game trailers don't get that exciting usually, and dragon age origins' and even Dragon Age 2's was pretty dang good as far as game trailers go.
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You mean the DA Origins trailers in which the main character had this certain look that was impossible to create with the ingame character editor? Yes, GREAT trailers. They just had nothing to do with the game itself at all...
 
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After the collosal failure of DA2, the last thing they want is story information to be misinterpreted.

If you think BF and COD with eminem is bad, check out the new Mortal Kombat trailer...so out of place.

The new DA:I trailer was...ok. Nothing special.

:rofl: I just looked it up... Wow. Scorpio and Subzero fighting to a pop rap track, that's something I never wanted to see. Mortal Kombat is Metal, not Swag.
 
I honestly don't know why you all praise Origins that much. I just replayed the whole game and it's nice but nothing special. Way worse than classic games of the genre like Baldur's Gate 2 in almost every aspect, including gameplay, art design and writing (general storytelling, quest design and characters). I guess it's because many modern gamers are too young and Origins was the first game of the kind they know and grew up with. For an older semester like me Origins was already a step down and that's maybe because I have another opinion on the game than many others. Or maybe I just have bigger standards and demands for storytelling in general, who knows...

That is actually not far from the truth. TW1 was my first story-driven RPG, then ME and DA:O, when I was still 16. I've yet to finish BG2 and PS:T...Now I know what to do until DA:I comes.
 
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