the male characters getting a strength bonus is perhaps a bit too biological for my tastes.
You could counter it by giving the female V boost in other areas.
I don’t see s problem with that.
the male characters getting a strength bonus is perhaps a bit too biological for my tastes.
It's not a "problem" per se, but it's unnecessary.You could counter it by giving the female V boost in other areas.
I don’t see s problem with that.
they should make physical stats based on body type and viceversa (i.e. strenght and agility limited by muscle and body fat). IIRC SCUM does that (I don't have the game and never will). Not gonna happen in CP though.Maybe someone just wants to play a fat, out-of-shape character and not feel hindered because of it.
I was thinking about it, but can't really think about something where females are better than males by definition from a biological point of viewYou could counter it by giving the female V boost in other areas.
I fear you're a little too optimistic about that. But I'm a pessimistic guy, so....And make no mistake - attribute points in 2077 will be precious. This is not DND where you have a bunch of points to put in all your different stats. You have a very limited pool, and on top of that, you can only get more by getting cyberware.
they should make physical stats based on body type and viceversa (i.e. strenght and agility limited by muscle and body fat). IIRC SCUM does that (I don't have the game and never will). Not gonna happen in CP though.
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I was thinking about it, but can't really think about something where females are better than males by definition from a biological point of view
(anyone, please please please do not misunderstand my words, males and females are the same, just males have more muscle)
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I fear you're a little too optimistic about that. But I'm a pessimistic guy, so....
did they?they've flat out said the only way to get attributes is via Cyberware (post-character creation, that is)
That's STRICTLY a game trope.So males might get more strength, females better reflexes.
I tend to agree it's an Action game first and an RPG second based on what we've seen so far. I however have hopes that CDPR is creating the "dual mode" I've long commented on. No single game mode can satisfy both action and RPG fans. While it's not easy to have both (you essentially have to design/implement two separate sets of game mechanics) it's far from impossible. Publishers chasing the almighty $ will do what sells best, action games, but RPGs (good ones anyway) have a loyal, long term, fan base that will scarf up expansions, DLC, sequals (that aren't watered down like so many are), merchandise, etc. so have significantly greater long-term profitability. I hope CDPR continues to take the long view not focus on next quarters profits.Looking through the game play demo, each characteristics (Sorry if I jump to conclusion) seems pretty weak. Shooting seems to rely on how well you are at aiming, maybe there will be a damage bonus. Hacking, when V does it, seems to just be a straight up check vs your tech level. I mean all the RPG elements from what I, at least, have seen so far seems to be secondary with little to no depth to them, when compared to just being a full blown action focused game of lets shoot everything up and keep the RPG elements simple and focused on story instead.
I disagree with the gender stuff not for political/moral/etc. reasons, but from a gameplay perspective, it seems unfair to punish a player for something as simple as picking the "wrong" gender for the character archetype they want. Especially because attributes can only be changed with cyberware, which is a pretty big deal.
That's STRICTLY a game trope.
Yes males are (usually) physically stronger, have better endurance, and are able to walk further (female hip structure is a compromise). But females are no more, or less, gifted then males with regard to other attributes. As @Snowflakez said, were this a fantasy game with different races I'd be totally cool with a gender difference, it's not.
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And should it ever come to it, I would personally choose agility/reflexes over strength any time in a fight. So if any, it would be to punish the males
I was thinking about it, but can't really think about something where females are better than males by definition from a biological point of view
(anyone, please please please do not misunderstand my words, males and females are the same, just males have more muscle)
I just had a post deleted for entering real-world political territory, so let's not go there. I would prefer not to have this entire discussion deleted for the same reason. In fact, you may want to edit your post for your own sake (I don't care, personally).
In the context of gameplay, I think in this particular game it would be negative for one gender to have advantages over another.
Oh, in that case we are of the same mind.Just to make it completely clear, I don't think it would work in Cyberpunk either based on the stats we have seen. There is simply not enough depth to it, from what I can see that its would make sense. So we agree on that. I was talking in RPG in general that I think it could be used in a fun and interesting way if it were done correctly.
I still don't like the idea of buffs (or debuffs) based on gender, but you laid it out nicely here, so have a REDpoint!Hi, yes snowflakes said it right about what i meant about cover mechanics.
I might have stirred a bit of distress having mention about the male character thing. What i meant in my posts was that when say as a strart off there are some biological advatage that carries along for a character gender. so say he's a male, naturally and in the very general sense the body type has a biological advantage over female. But that's a reason why i had pointed out there needs of more character back story. but likewise, perhaps female has a advantage over social communication over males etc etc
maybe perhaps cdpr could include like athletic background, or character had previous trainings which delves into any of the attributes whether strength or agility etc. As character history is involved in the character creation therefore i see potential to include different back story which shape the characters themselves right at the start. But yeah sure during the game i don't see why not we can improve in areas which we started of lacking. just we have slight starter boon if we still use that word.
I also liked to see it reflect in the character models. so lets say we choose female V, so we have general stat strength is lowered, but with a back story she came from an athletic background, therefore increases strength and agility. furthermore it would increase immersion when it is reflected V's character model musculature and skeletal structure. She'd be more cut, fingers thicker, upperframes wider so forth. otherwise we might find we get stick figure anime characters wielding final fantasy like gargantuan swords. Then again, if CDPR is going for this kind of art style i imagine that would change a lot of the artwork. But don't get me wrong, yes we get cybernetics and mods to counter worldy weight and physical sizes, but i imagine the same mechanics applies in dealing with these which relative to each other ur character attributes and cybernetic advantage over physical objects and structure. my thoughts revolves around immersion and what feels right.
the more it involves real world type attributes i find it the more interesting. and it becomes more interesting as to why we add mods to our characters and finds ways about improving areas which are weaknesses. otherwise in a logical sense if it was that easy for everyone to just buff up become the strongest character without any hindrance or cost, wether personal or external, everyone would be doing it by now. this would then greatly change real world dynamics and how people interact which each other. in an overall sense, if everyone could get what they want just being born into the world and started working out on themselves then the world of cyberpunk would not be a very "distopian" place i imagine, there would be more happy people. But i by do no means say that once u choose a gender u are cut off from other attributes, just have their relative challenges.
I like these discussions does raise a lot of thinking, hopefully CDPR will take into account these in their game designs
Why would male characters be better? That just makes them the the preferred option to play as...
I still don't like the idea of buffs (or debuffs) based on gender, but you laid it out nicely here, so have a REDpoint!
I do, however, like the idea of background-specific bonuses. I think that's even more immersive, and I hope they consider it.
Actually I'm overjoyed Cyberpunk Red is splitting Reflex and Dexterity. Reflexes may help in melee but have basically nothing to do with shooting, that's dexterity, hand-eye coordination. IRL my reflexes have always sucked, but when I was younger my dexterity was significantly above average.Another way which is also fairly common in games today is to link certain weapons types to specific stats, which would make high reflex character better at those and so forth.
Again, in a fantasy setting I have no issues with this. As mentioned the whole setting is (almost always) a steriotype.This idea that one (in-game) gender is better suited for certain playstyles is precisely the problem for me.
I'd REALLY rather not see playstyle (brute force vs finesse) gender steriotyped. Reminds me far to much of most Asian MMOs. Your playstyle should be solely based on your stat point and skills distribution. And decent character generation software will take care of "burly" vs "athletic".Hi, yes snowflakes said it right about what i meant about cover mechanics.
I also liked to see it reflect in the character models. so lets say we choose female V, so we have general stat strength is lowered, but with a back story she came from an athletic background, therefore increases strength and agility. furthermore it would increase immersion when it is reflected V's character model musculature and skeletal structure.
Problem is CP2020, and apparently CP2077 use a 1-10 stat range, so even a single point difference is significant.Its not about better or worse, just which has slight advantage - or disadvantage - over whatever attributes at the start.
Problem is CP2020, and apparently CP2077 use a 1-10 stat range, so even a single point difference is significant.
Even D&D ranges from 3 to 18+, so a one point difference is around 5%, noticible but not terribly significant.Yeah, this was my thinking. If it was, say, Oblivion and it was a skill bonus that'd be a different story, since I think those go 1-100.
Problem is CP2020, and apparently CP2077 use a 1-10 stat range, so even a single point difference is significant.
Just to be clear, I don't think me or Suhiira (I can't speak for others) were bothered by your suggestion because of sexism. We are all strictly talking about gameplay, so no worries - we're on the same page.Im getting that you're meaning that all character or gender should starts at 0 buffs and at 0 level or at equal points at each attributes? strength agily etc. then we would modify ourselves the attribute? i have no problems with this and i would entirely like to build my character from ground up. i loved playing with this way and have more control. If that's the case then character background would purely mean that it affects gameplay story and quest elements only and not add to ur enviromental effects.
I've never played the cyberpunk board game or asian mmo. I have played baldursgate but only got so far as the character creation and the begining. i've played morrowind and skyrim. but in experience, background history normally adds to attributes. then depending on the type of creature or human u are adds to attributes. i believe this is where the stereotype meaning comes in. or perhaps more effectively the world - overused. I actually would like to scream at CDPR saying "no varying attributes please!'' . however in this case seeing where their game is going and the kind of art style they are choosing (real world mimicry which includes time, weight, volume, space, world history, social and socio-economic progression, future blend mechanical, cybernetics, biological technological mindset evolution, realism blend with fiction arty etc + a ton more), i would imagine the game would introduce some attribute altercation due gender just for basic immersion and realism. And later on players will adjust character to counter these strengths or weaknesses.
To micro analyse what attributes should each gender have over the other would need to introduce a multitude of factors including how the majority of society in the characters time and space deals with and what historic significant happened during his or her timeline. looking at the game at a glance, its pretty evident the type of mindset involved and i imagine the attributes set for either should be relative to its current time and space.
this is what i imagine if attributes to be added to each gender and if cdpr would like to go down this track of introducing somerealism towards character creation.
as mentioned i'm happy for to have 0 buffs or 0 attribute changes at the start. thats easy. at least i dont have fret over choosing being under a certain moon to have certain blessings from whatever god anymore. My question right now is why would i play a male V rather than a female V.
That said, I'm sorry if i'm behind the times and didnt quite realise the sexism thing is quite strong now. i dont remember thinking about these things back then. In light of this then maybe CDPR would like to stay off this trigger and i would like to make a suggestion that they introduce more character backstory which will greatly effect character attributes, environment and story. or the highway - no attribute enhancement at all.
look forward to a great game
I just realized you may not be aware of this, but CDPR is indeed going for a "build your own character" approach. Players are given a set amount of attribute points, and they can distribute them as they see fit - think Fallout: New Vegas instead of Oblivion. No class choice or anything like that.