haven't really read all of the topic... if you are to put analogies here i would see it this wayin the modern world: elves=muslims+blacknotinamerica+aborygens+indians, dwarvs=chinesse+hindu, men=europeans plus citizens of some very rich countries.What i'm trying to say is do not dig in history for analogies they are at hand, we do not live in the brotherhood of man, even today there are people being killed just for what they belive in or colour of they skin, there are people working their whole lives just to earn what others earn in a month, and not because they aren't educated or smth. just because they were born where they were born. And i do not think Sapkowski meant the kind of analogy with nazis and jews, from reading last tomes of saga You will learn that in some alternate world elves killed all the people and are now using those that they can kidnap as servants, almost like animals. So I'm saying that jews-nazis analogy is just to simple and much much overinterpretating (not sure if such word exist, but if it doesn't it should ).
I could never in good conscience support the murderous inhuman rebels. I don't entirely fault them for fighting to save themselves, but as a member of the human race it is my duty to further my own people above all else, and these people stand in the way. Dog eat dog. Plus, the knights are just cool.
Just finished my first play-through, and I sided with the Order. Just because I liked Siegfried, really! When I met him in the sewers I thought he was a nice bloke - a bit odd, and lonely - and took a liking to him immediately 
He was my friend ever since, and I just couldn't refuse to help him ever since (e.g. swamp)... which basically put me on his side as the elves didn't like me after that.Also, he doesn't agree with the evil side of the Order, I don't think, he's just been brainwashed. When Dandelion and Shani talk to him he at least considers their viewpoint, which is better than the elves do.Anyway, it really upset me (Geralt) when my old friend Zoltan refused to talk to me near the end, so this time I think I'll try either neutral (probably not going to work, as I'm too opinionated! ) or siding with the non-humans. I was severely tempted to join the non-humans, though, every time one of those b*stard kids said "Oooooh, you look WEIRD!" or one of the snooty townswomen said "I thought your kind was wiped out" or "Filthy mutant" ... or whatever it is they say.Grrr @ racists.
He was my friend ever since, and I just couldn't refuse to help him ever since (e.g. swamp)... which basically put me on his side as the elves didn't like me after that.Also, he doesn't agree with the evil side of the Order, I don't think, he's just been brainwashed. When Dandelion and Shani talk to him he at least considers their viewpoint, which is better than the elves do.Anyway, it really upset me (Geralt) when my old friend Zoltan refused to talk to me near the end, so this time I think I'll try either neutral (probably not going to work, as I'm too opinionated! ) or siding with the non-humans. I was severely tempted to join the non-humans, though, every time one of those b*stard kids said "Oooooh, you look WEIRD!" or one of the snooty townswomen said "I thought your kind was wiped out" or "Filthy mutant" ... or whatever it is they say.Grrr @ racists.Yeavinn lied to you several times, what makes you believe that his "i was beaten as a child" was true and not another part of his propaganda?
Trybald said it best. Again I go back to the Jews. Should the Jews have just lobbied? Begged the mean old Mr. Hitler to just stop being such a Scrooge? Come off it. I'm sorry, but that's just not realistic. The Scoia'tael aren't punching grandmothers here. Thoroughly a strawman argument. Here's a more accurate scenario: you can get out of the fight with the opponent twice your size by holding your opponent's elderly grandmother hostage. It sucks to scare the old lady that way, but if he loves her and will otherwise kill you because you can't run fast enough, that just might be your only option to get away safely. The Scoia'tael fear being killed off, being witch-hunted; the only way to get humanity to back down, in their eyes, is to make them afraid. As Yaevinn says, he knows he would be tortured if caught; he wouldn't risk his life or the lives of others if he thought it was all pointless. He's not just being violent. He's fighting for concessions, for nonhuman rights--which, if you go to their side, King Foltest is inclined to grant. Obviously the Witcher's world is very grey... but the Scoia'tael still look a few shades lighter to me. Although, my personal strategy would be to make love, not war. Literally. Maybe the elves can't survive on their own, but shag enough humans, and they can survive by breeding with our kind. Yeah, that's right, baby. I like 'em pointy-eared. Give mama some sugar.Motemeal said:
As a child? Never heard that. And do give examples of his lies. I don't recall him ever lying, although if he did lie to someone, I'd think it was for a damned good reason. Idealists tend not to lie for fun.Motemeal said:
I didnt like this Siegfried fellow, I didnt want him along on the sewer quest and if I find him in an dark ally I kill his ass.
Greetings!I actually sided with neither; I went neutral.- RogerSolescape said:
Its a little bit pointless to argue which is "the good" side in this because clearly neither is good.The fact that the whole game shirks away from such clear and artificial moral labeling is a beautifull thing. A breath of fresh air.If you really want to take the high moral ground then both sides are evil. Only one is maybe somewhat less so. So geralt has to choose between two evils, chose the lesser one.And since the game itself isnt a moral judge neither choice will lead to any kind of gratifying rewards that would console the poor player and make him feel just dandy.And i really, really like that.Personaly first playthrough for me was on the side of the Scoiatel because i connected them with north american indians and their destiny. However the major deterent in that was the character of Yaevin. I saw him as arogant and repugnant. he just made me want to kick his ass from the first second so untill the end of the game i had to fight that instinct all the time.On the other side i imidiately liked Sigfried but hated the idea of the Order as they seemed to nazi for me. Nothing else but racist propaganda to them, no real reasons for doing what they do except some ludicrous paranoid plan made by a mad man, as we later discover. Still i had to force myself not to join, because curiosity about Sigfried and how he will evolve through the story and what role he will play later on, really atracted me.I find this very interesting. Im not sure was it intentionaly done in this way (some people seem to like Yaevin for some reson? :dead but i see it as icing on the cake. I like when the game ... or the story of the game doesnt band over backwards trying to please me with endearing characters - they could have insterted some elven ultra sexy chick instead of Yeavin and some reall bearded bastard instead of Sigfried and then it would all be much different, would it not?Nice move, i say.Second play through i tried to go down the neutral route and perhaps this one was the best for me. I dont think i will ever play on for the Order, not even for curiosity.mostly because the last chapters showed that character of Yaevin and especialy Sigfried didnt really evolve through the story but instead had only gotten more one dimensional. They both just turn into some... cheap versions of themselves, turn enemy (which is expected) but in a rather simplistic manner which isnt consistent with their introduction. Especialy Sigfried.
but i see it as icing on the cake. I like when the game ... or the story of the game doesnt band over backwards trying to please me with endearing characters - they could have insterted some elven ultra sexy chick instead of Yeavin and some reall bearded bastard instead of Sigfried and then it would all be much different, would it not?Nice move, i say.Second play through i tried to go down the neutral route and perhaps this one was the best for me. I dont think i will ever play on for the Order, not even for curiosity.mostly because the last chapters showed that character of Yaevin and especialy Sigfried didnt really evolve through the story but instead had only gotten more one dimensional. They both just turn into some... cheap versions of themselves, turn enemy (which is expected) but in a rather simplistic manner which isnt consistent with their introduction. Especialy Sigfried.Spot on. And I think it's intentional to have a "dislikeable" character as head of the so-called freedom-fighters, and a "likeable" character representing the "religious fanatics", since it really complicates matters (the other way around would've made it too one-sided). I also think it's only natural the both turn into cheap versions of themselves as things get harder on themhiver said:I find this very interesting. Im not sure was it intentionaly done in this way (some people seem to like Yaevin for some reson? :dead
Squirrels! Humans are greedy and hate them...because no reason,squirrels..they also do bad things but humans...they deserved it!
I dont think so. Even if it remained somewhat simple it could have been done better. Yaevin could have atacked you for killing his "Squirells" some of which surely would be his friends (if you joined the Order) or acused and atack you because your actions led to deaths of his people (if youre neutral).Maybe its the fault of english dialogues being choped off but it lacked believability to me. It was more in the style of "hah, we are enemies now. defend yourself!"Not really satisfactory.With Sigfried they really missed a great oportunity to show his changes over time from someone basically decent and simpatic to someone with closed, clouded mind turned genocidal ... "just folowing orderds" type or maybe a true beliver in betterment by genocide theories.Hopefully they will enhance these parts of their characters in this upcoming new edition too.Fiskrens said:
I'm neutral. Why? Armor...Raven's armor ;D ...the stats of this version are the best for my style. I used Aard and strenght style... so Elven armor is good for sign witchers...endurence regeneration and some endurance +...Order armor is only for fighters...fighters, who don't used any signs... And next reason is : I don't like politics of elves, and Order? I don't like them, it's all.
I got a bit misinterpreted it seems: what I meant was that their change in behavior isn't illogical, but could certainly be made better.So yes, Siegried's reaction in epilogue is disappointing, there should've been more depth. Haven't met Yaevvin in a long time, so I can't tell about him (only first time through for me). Think I'll go squirrels next time (if I can stand themhiver said:
)one of the choices makes it so siegfried doesnt fight you.the problem with siegfried is that when he starts off, he relies on notions as honour and valour, as well as the sanctity of innocent life.He then fights alongside geralt showing that you can have valour and save innocent life without honour, because geralt did it to get out of jail.He then sees the scoatael random killings, they are fighting for their honour and valour with no regard to innocent life.He then takes part in the raid on the swamp. the skirmish kills nearly all of them, it wasnt an honourable battle and he is rewarded for his valour.his final thoughts are there is no honour, no valour and no such thing as innocent lives. Hence, his final choice in the game.
his biggest problem is that he fights at all, he shouldn't he is to complex for that when he sees evil he want's to do smth. but hes methods leads him nowhere because he realizes that he becomes evil when he fights. He should be a nurse instead of a knight they would make a nice couple with shani.
I don't know about you lot, but I'm going to follow the fourth way :
[size=14pt]The Witcher Way[/size]Aims:1 - To get back what is ours...2 - To KILL those that took that which is ours...Methods:1 - To work when we please, for who we please...2 - To get as much money as possible doing our work...(see method 1)3 - Taking everything NOT nailed down...4 - Sleeping with whoever we please, whenever we please... 5 - Introducing anybody who disagrees with my methods to the working end of my swords... :dead:
...I find both the Rodents( Squirrels), and the Homer Simpson Fan Club( Knights ), to be very irritating, and they are beginning to give me a migrane, so I think I'll just introduce them to my version of genocide and KILL THEM ALL... :dead:
[size=14pt]The Witcher Way[/size]Aims:1 - To get back what is ours...2 - To KILL those that took that which is ours...Methods:1 - To work when we please, for who we please...2 - To get as much money as possible doing our work...(see method 1)3 - Taking everything NOT nailed down...
4 - Sleeping with whoever we please, whenever we please... 5 - Introducing anybody who disagrees with my methods to the working end of my swords... :dead: ...I find both the Rodents( Squirrels), and the Homer Simpson Fan Club( Knights ), to be very irritating, and they are beginning to give me a migrane, so I think I'll just introduce them to my version of genocide and KILL THEM ALL... :dead: