I think you will find it is currently very difficult for players who have joined this month to enjoy the gains you and I enjoyed recently regarding our collections.
My issue is that I have seen with every move that CDPR has made with this game, in only the 3 months I have been playing, a move deeper and deeper into monetisation, and pushing people toward buying lootboxes (with real money) to keep up. And yet I keep being told how generous this game is/WAS to new players, like that is some kind of excuse for predatory monetisation.
So whilst I appreciate it WAS the most generous CCG game, I am not sure that harkening back to the halceon days ever more is ample succour for the new (hopefully expanding) player base.
Again, I congratulate you on your achievement. My MO deck is also homebrew.
Let's have a hug.
It isn't predatory to make money off a game you put hard work into. They deserve to profit and need to to keep it running in fact. It is easy to get gold to buy the same kegs you get with money. The only kegs you can't get with gold are just for cosmetic value.
Plus from what I understand, journey will be coming back sometime in the near future no reason to overreact
If you have had success with your own homebrew... what are you even complaining about to begin with? That sorta invalidates most of your argument.
I don't care about nerfs or whatnot, what I need are more interactive games.
MO playing frost and all control cards.
ST playing all traps and control cards.
Just a few examples.
It isn't predatory to make money off a game you put hard work into. They deserve to profit and need to to keep it running in fact. It is easy to get gold to buy the same kegs you get with money. The only kegs you can't get with gold are just for cosmetic value.
Plus from what I understand, journey will be coming back sometime in the near future no reason to overreact
If you have had success with your own homebrew... what are you even complaining about to begin with? That sorta invalidates most of your argument.
I would say it only invalidates all my argument in your mind. As you appear not to want to address them. But you are forgetting/ignoring that I am a pay to win player...
Don't forget that point. And I am not a casual player either, as I suspect neither are you.
As I keep pointing out to you there is a ceiling to being a FtP player, and that ceiling keeps getting lowered.
You are still referencing back to things that don't exist for current players.
Regarding Journey for example, whilst I acknowledge it (did) allow FtP players to grind out keys, we shouldn't ignore that the quests were quite obviously set up to encourage purchase of the new archetypes of that time. Be that through gold, or real world money. Note as well this decision was done to the detriment of the meta at the time, and exacerbated the issues people had with certain overplayed archetypes.
Finally, I never said there is any problem with developers making money from their work. So let's not start throwing that out there. I actually worked within the industry for a number of years so I am aware of the pressure, but I am also aware there are very unethical practices. So let's not brush under the carpet the issue of unregulated gambling so easily. Which the video games industry has been getting taken to task over of late.
Again as wonderful a developer as I am sure CDPR is, they are clearly on a mission to monetize this game as much as possible after laying the ground work building a fan base through past (note past) generosity.
"In that regard?" LOL I can't take you seriously any more with some of the nonsense you have been coming out with these last few weeks as arguments.
Of course this game is Pay to Win.
Premium Journey (Pay to Win)
Needing to have all the newest expansion cards to compete on pro ladder (Pay to Win)
All the newest expansion cards becoming auto include (Pay to Win)
Stealth nerfs to new player rewards to slow them down accumulating cards (Pay to Win)
Tell me what is the route for a relative new player to qualify for the Gwent Masters? (Pay to win)
Must be difficult to prevaricate so much. So I really should applaud you.
I imagine you can tell me next how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.
I have to agree with the others, Gwent is a very generous card game for f2p players.
If anything I think Gwent would be more "Pay to Obtain" and less P2W. You can pay to obtain the cards via kegs, but it only helps so much. Given the strategy involved and the luck/rng/coin flip that goes into each match. If you are not good at all the little aspects of Gwent, paying for kegs will not help you win. Mulligans, when to pass, when to bleed, card sequencing, etc are all factors that go into winning. If you have all the best cards-- expansion or not, that does not automatically mean you'll be paying to win, only paying to obtain the cards. You need to put in the work. P2W in most games give you an instant advantage over f2p people, in Gwent it doesn't I'd you do not have the experience to back up having the cards.
Journey is mainly there for cosmetics; yes you get random cards and RP but Journey is not there for people to buy and get all the cards in the game. If I were a new player I definitely would not go buy premium journey to complete my deck.
You are taking the current unbalanced meta and saying you need a deck using all the expansion cards to be competitive, that is not completely true (at higher levels maybe, but not all). Yes, some decks perform better using the expansion cards, but having them is not a necessity. Plus, getting the new cards is not hard given how generously CDPR give ore and other free currency.
You can easily obtain the majority of the expansion cards (and all other cards) without paying a dime. With a little patience you can craft the gold's that you do not get with ease... Again due to CDPRs generous approach to in game currancy and rewards. So even if your statement is true, most people have or can obtain the worth while expansion cards easily (without paying). The issue is the balancing, not the inability to get the new cards.
Not sure about the stealth nerf, but with reward trees and the crafting system and the amount of scraps you can get fairly quickly via quests, reward trees, challenges, etc, obtaining new cards is not hard, as stated before.
Relatively new players serious enough to qualify for Gwent Masters probably are not f2p, and if they are then they will need to play such a significant amount that they will be able to either craft, or earn enough ore to unlock most if not all the cards. Anyone aspiring to make it to a gaming tournament is not worried about paying in order to get to that tournament, so if you are worried about those players I wouldn't waste your time, they will find a way to Gwent Masters whether F2P or "P2W."
It comes down to patience, people buy ore for cards because they are impatient. In all games this is true. We are fortunate enough to have a game where if you have even an inkling of patience you can still get most of the stuff in the game.
People kinda got it wrong demanding changes to SK revival and value leech mechanics. SW and GS have been out there since forever. They were stronger and weaker along the way. But never before has SK been as broken as now. What changed? SW and GS? No. It's the new cards. Those cards are broken.
Turgvii, Harald and Eagle got little nerfs, should had been bigger but okay, great. Now, Skordjal (for sure), Herkja (maybe), the new bronzes (pretty much all of them are more or less overpowered), maybe revisit Eagle and Harald... Baby steps. Maybe Gwent still has a chance to be playable again before Christmas.
I would say it only invalidates all my argument in your mind. As you appear not to want to address them. But you are forgetting/ignoring that I am a pay to win player...
Don't forget that point. And I am not a casual player either, as I suspect neither are you.
As I keep pointing out to you there is a ceiling to being a FtP player, and that ceiling keeps getting lowered.
You are still referencing back to things that don't exist for current players.
Regarding Journey for example, whilst I acknowledge it (did) allow FtP players to grind out keys, we shouldn't ignore that the quests were quite obviously set up to encourage purchase of the new archetypes of that time. Be that through gold, or real world money. Note as well this decision was done to the detriment of the meta at the time, and exacerbated the issues people had with certain overplayed archetypes.
Finally, I never said there is any problem with developers making money from their work. So let's not start throwing that out there. I actually worked within the industry for a number of years so I am aware of the pressure, but I am also aware there are very unethical practices. So let's not brush under the carpet the issue of unregulated gambling so easily. Which the video games industry has been getting taken to task over of late.
Again as wonderful a developer as I am sure CDPR is, they are clearly on a mission to monetize this game as much as possible after laying the ground work building a fan base through past (note past) generosity.
Which one is it? ...You need every new card to win and only the best meta decks will do or your Homebrew got you a top spot? ... you see the hypocrisy right?
Also I said journey is coming back after the Gaunter event is over, which you chose to overlook among other things.
I have seen no evidence of predatory or unethical practices. It's nice to get your perspective since you worked in the industry, but let's be real. Monetization is how you make money. This is capitalism at work. Every business needs something to draw attention to themselves in order to get a reoccurring customer base. That's how real life works.
Which one is it? ...You need every new card to win and only the best meta decks will do or your Homebrew got you a top spot? ... you see the hypocrisy right?
Also I said journey is coming back after the Gaunter event is over, which you chose to overlook among other things.
I have seen no evidence of predatory or unethical practices. It's nice to get your perspective since you worked in the industry, but let's be real. Monetization is how you make money. This is capitalism at work. Every business needs something to draw attention to themselves in order to get a reoccurring customer base. That's how real life works.
Okay, you keep talking past me, but I'll try and address your issues:
1. I acknowledge that on the surface it would appear hypocritical, but I think we are butting heads on a key difference in what it means to "win" in a Pay to Win game, specifically Gwent. For me that means needing to pay real world money to be able to access the top tier of competition. I.e. no glass ceilings for FtP players.
iin regards to me getting listed a top 10 factional player, it holds no actual value in the context of Gwent. It is merely a statistic. in other words it in no way reflects that I will gain access to the top 100; I either need to have access to the growing list of OP legendaries to build 3 to 4 competitive decks or I won't make it. In the current state, I could go from now until the end of the season beating every top player, but if I only have one deck I will not trouble the top player rankings. Now if you think I am wrong on this, I encourage you to try, and that's within any time frame. I will hold my hands up and praise you even more than I have already done so today.
2. This is capitalism at work? Um... A bit random, but sure capitalism as a system has its pros and cons, but I must have missed the bit where living in a capitalist society meant all ethical considerations can happily go out the window. You reference how "real life" works, I would says as adults we are expected to behave ethically and hold each other to account or systems like academia, science, larger society etc. fall apart.
Regarding predatory monetisation, again I think this is an issue of definitions. For me using loot boxes within a pay to win mechanic is predatory monetisation. Especially when old cards are nerfed as not to devalue the power of the any newly released OP cards. I can give you examples of this if you like. But it's all there in the patch notes, and the forums are full of such complaints.
3. I didn't ignore your point about the journey either, I addressed it directly. I was very careful to do so in fact.
I'm sorry, but I think we might have to agree to disagree, rather than talking past each other.
As I say, you are welcome to try to get to the top within the FtP model that you laud, but I don't think you will succeed. BUT I am open to being wrong on that point.
I have to agree with the others, Gwent is a very generous card game for f2p players.
If anything I think Gwent would be more "Pay to Obtain" and less P2W. You can pay to obtain the cards via kegs, but it only helps so much. Given the strategy involved and the luck/rng/coin flip that goes into each match. If you are not good at all the little aspects of Gwent, paying for kegs will not help you win. Mulligans, when to pass, when to bleed, card sequencing, etc are all factors that go into winning. If you have all the best cards-- expansion or not, that does not automatically mean you'll be paying to win, only paying to obtain the cards. You need to put in the work. P2W in most games give you an instant advantage over f2p people, in Gwent it doesn't I'd you do not have the experience to back up having the cards.
Journey is mainly there for cosmetics; yes you get random cards and RP but Journey is not there for people to buy and get all the cards in the game. If I were a new player I definitely would not go buy premium journey to complete my deck.
You are taking the current unbalanced meta and saying you need a deck using all the expansion cards to be competitive, that is not completely true (at higher levels maybe, but not all). Yes, some decks perform better using the expansion cards, but having them is not a necessity. Plus, getting the new cards is not hard given how generously CDPR give ore and other free currency.
You can easily obtain the majority of the expansion cards (and all other cards) without paying a dime. With a little patience you can craft the gold's that you do not get with ease... Again due to CDPRs generous approach to in game currancy and rewards. So even if your statement is true, most people have or can obtain the worth while expansion cards easily (without paying). The issue is the balancing, not the inability to get the new cards.
Not sure about the stealth nerf, but with reward trees and the crafting system and the amount of scraps you can get fairly quickly via quests, reward trees, challenges, etc, obtaining new cards is not hard, as stated before.
Relatively new players serious enough to qualify for Gwent Masters probably are not f2p, and if they are then they will need to play such a significant amount that they will be able to either craft, or earn enough ore to unlock most if not all the cards. Anyone aspiring to make it to a gaming tournament is not worried about paying in order to get to that tournament, so if you are worried about those players I wouldn't waste your time, they will find a way to Gwent Masters whether F2P or "P2W."
It comes down to patience, people buy ore for cards because they are impatient. In all games this is true. We are fortunate enough to have a game where if you have even an inkling of patience you can still get most of the stuff in the game.
I really like your concept of Pay to Obtain, and there is a lot of truth in what you say. BUT unfortunately I feel it falls down in light of the high win percentages of ST Mystic Echo pre-nerf and then SK Great Swords recent nerf. Such decks can quite happily override RNG/Skill/Strategy. Then there are the top tier decks that play out in near enough the same sequence no matter the opponent. And with the introduction of Tutors with echo, this is going to be a growing problem (again caused by the newest expansion and feeding into PtW) I don't want to sound like a broken record, but the new expansion brings such high levels of consistency of play, it is turning the game into top trumps. i.e. if I have more finishers (read legendary cards) I win.
I don't think this is an issue exclusive to the current meta. Every expansion has introduced mechanics that were auto include. This new expansion is just the biggest culprit. Whereby you have highly competitive decks which just stuff in all the new faction cards into one deck, and compete at the top level. That sounds very much like PtW.
I have to admit, I used all my accumulated gold to opened nearly 80 kegs. I have all the new common, rare and majority of epics, but I am way of making all the expansion cards, so I don't think that is true that a FtP player has easy access. The drop rates for legendaries was too low for that to be true even with crafting from scraps. I don't particularly have an issue with the drop rate, it's what I expected, but it certainly wasn't generous, and as a new FtP player I get the sense you will always be playing catch up now.
The stealth nerf was to the daily rewards players can grind for. It is now much harder for FtP players as of this month.
You make a good point about Gwent Masters, but through the exclusion of true wild card entrants, it just embodies the PtW ethos. It is a closed shop.
Much like the Champions League, it's the big money teams that are involved time and again
To be honest, I don't think it would be even possible to grind it as a relatively new FtP player, not without seriously putting your health at risk. But I acknowledge your point. It is "pro" ranks after all.
I agree, much can be achieved with patience, but it's not simply a lack of it that results in people paying real money. The release of expansions, nerfs to older cards, adjustments to reward structures, will be designed to ensure new players always feel they are playing catch up, and hence the pressure to spend. The Fear Of Missing Out also drives such games. There will be some with addiction issues too.
Okay, you keep talking past me, but I'll try and address your issues:
1. I acknowledge that on the surface it would appear hypocritical, but I think we are butting heads on a key difference in what it means to "win" in a Pay to Win game, specifically Gwent. For me that means needing to pay real world money to be able to access the top tier of competition. I.e. no glass ceilings for FtP players.
iin regards to me getting listed a top 10 factional player, it holds no actual value in the context of Gwent. It is merely a statistic. in other words it in no way reflects that I will gain access to the top 100; I either need to have access to the growing list of OP legendaries to build 3 to 4 competitive decks or I won't make it. In the current state, I could go from now until the end of the season beating every top player, but if I only have one deck I will not trouble the top player rankings. Now if you think I am wrong on this, I encourage you to try, and that's within any time frame. I will hold my hands up and praise you even more than I have already done so today.
2. This is capitalism at work? Um... A bit random, but sure capitalism as a system has its pros and cons, but I must have missed the bit where living in a capitalist society meant all ethical considerations can happily go out the window. You reference how "real life" works, I would says as adults we are expected to behave ethically and hold each other to account or systems like academia, science, larger society etc. fall apart.
Regarding predatory monetisation, again I think this is an issue of definitions. For me using loot boxes within a pay to win mechanic is predatory monetisation. Especially when old cards are nerfed as not to devalue the power of the any newly released OP cards. I can give you examples of this if you like. But it's all there in the patch notes, and the forums are full of such complaints.
3. I didn't ignore your point about the journey either, I addressed it directly. I was very careful to do so in fact.
I'm sorry, but I think we might have to agree to disagree, rather than talking past each other.
As I say, you are welcome to try to get to the top within the FtP model that you laud, but I don't think you will succeed. BUT I am open to being wrong on that point.
Every video game company is walking a fine line trying to profit while not taking advantage of people. CDPR has a solid reputation of putting out quality products. They do better than most other AAA companies that have shameless tactics when it comes to microtransactions and the like.
Capitalism has everything to do with it like it or not. In order to maintain servers and put out a high quality product, you can't just rely on good will.
I am still taking you up on that hug no takesies backsies!
Imagine being cdpr. Make any changes what so ever and nag nag nag. A change was needed and they did so. Changes should be incremental and see how it goes. Every season there is op decks. Mystic echo, hidden cache, discard from back in the day. People need to chill and come up with creative counters and unique decks to be competitive. Even small changes can open up big windows
I just lost to NG with SK 30 points down, well done, Say hello to NG everyone, and watch as they Board wipe you when their side is filled with units and engines.
I just lost to NG with SK 30 points down, well done, Say hello to NG everyone, and watch as they Board wipe you when their side is filled with units and engines.
Haha, I just came here to post the same thing. The hole left by SK Second Wind, or the window (@Babyblue442) was evidently NG Spies shaped, and they have been kind enough to rush in and fill it.
1/3 of my games today were against the same Nilfgaard deck, and it absolutely wrecks MO insects just as it did on launch day...
Agreed whenever you think NG couldn't get more annoying, it kind of feels like they removed all of NG's weaknesses with the new Cards right now. Especially if you play a Swarm Deck against Strategic Withdrawal your Rows will be full in no time with Double Usurper putting 4 Spying Operatives and additional Spies on you're Side and letting them sit there till his last turn forcing you to discard the remaining Cards.
There must be a bug since the hotfix. My daily quest (Play 60 Unit cards for 2 RP) works really strange. I played 2 full matches: after the first the counter says I played 2 units and after the second it shows that I played 7 (!) units in these 2 matches. I think I explored a new "unitless deck"
I don't really get how this nerf killed you're favorite Druide archetype, you just need to replace one of the higher provision Cards with a 4 Provision Card and the Deck will work almost identical, it's not like they did a completely rework of an archetype like they did with bearmasters or old NR Hubert Rejk.
