Immersion and plate armour (Spoilers - don't read if you've played less than 1 hour of TW 2)

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Beestonian said:
I make this point when referring to the logistics of rediculous female armor, and I'll make this point here.

You have geralt shooting fire out of his fingers, blood curses that cause ghosts to roam battlefields, mind-controlled dragons, teleportation and spectral riders that kidnap people. And you're worried about mutant Witchers being able to stab through plate armor?

Apart from the fantasy elements the Witcher games are actually fairly realistic when it comes to the design of weapons and armour. There's no reason not to try to keep authentic what can be kept authentic. I don't see why the existence of magic has to change the properties of steel. I realise why this probably isn't going to happen but I'd like more realism where it's possible.
 
Beestonian said:
I make this point when referring to the logistics of rediculous female armor, and I'll make this point here.

You have geralt shooting fire out of his fingers, blood curses that cause ghosts to roam battlefields, mind-controlled dragons, teleportation and spectral riders that kidnap people. And you're worried about mutant Witchers being able to stab through plate armor?
Not worried, it's just that it makes 0 sense.

The thing about the witcher universe is that all those situations you described are handled in a way that feels authentic, even if they wouldn't happen in the real world. So it'd be nice to continue with that trend in the combat scenes, otherwise it feels out of place and, as the OP said, it breaks immersion.
 
ReptilePZ said:
Probably something closer to what we can see in this trailer at around 1:15 would be better:
Precise cuts at unprotected parts.

 
It kind of seems a bit more menacing for a foe/s dressed totally in serious armor to come upon a Witcher dressed more simply in something leather with only a couple of swords and is ready to take care of business.

Those living in that world would know the lore of Witchers even if they hadn't actually seen one right?

Go Geralt Go!
 
Sirnaq said:

Something like this'd make an awesome finisher in the game.

What I really like is that the opponents don't look slow or clumsy, Geralt's just so much faster - lore friendly.
 
I definitely think that Geralt cutting through plate armor was pretty immersion breaking, the act one blades should have snapped rather than pierced plate like that. I don't think the whole "LOL magic" works either considering the Witcher is in a low-fantasy setting. As for how the Witcher 3 should handle it I would prefer an actual style system this time. More likely though is CD Projekt using that system for disabling monsters.

As a side note Geralt drawing his sword from his back does have an explanation other than Rule of Cool.



If you look closely you can see that Geralt's sheath is connected to his baldric by two leather straps, this system should allow him enough distance to fully draw his sword.
 
ReptilePZ said:
Plate armor really made the difference, and while it obviously can be pierced with a sword, the wearer would have to:
- be stationary, so that swordsman can thrust his sword at an appropriate angle (breastplates were shaped to guide blade sideways);
- be passive, so that the swordsman can put his strength and bodyweight behind the thrust without the risk of his opponent deflecting the sword;
- be really massive, so that the blow won't move him backwards, thus diminishing the force of the blow;
- not be wearing chainmail or leather jacket beneath the plate.

For the record, mutant or not, I don't see Geralt as being able to thrust his entire frigging sword through the front of the plate armor, then a chainmail, then the body, then again through the chainmail and through the back of the plate. Up to the hilt. To a moving target. That would require a sorcerer with some serious strength enhancing magic to do.

This is why European swords were straight and pointy - so that they can be used to thrust between armor joints. And remember how Geralt fought in the books? He would be pirouetting all around the battle ground, slashing his opponents' vital points.

Gameplay-wise fighting armored opponent would be all about finding (or creating) an opportunity for a blow, just like you have to do it with shield-bearers in TW2 - you simply cannot bash with your sword from the front. Then it would be all about playing appropriate animations - thrusting rather than slashing. Also note that even hitting between armor joints doesn't have to be immidiate death for the opponent - after all there is no guarantee you'll hit vital organs or arteries.

BTW One thing I liked about Aryan is that he didn't need some unique armor to distinguish himself from other NPCs. He wore the same armor as many of his other knights, and still he's a strong and memorable character. Like Siegfried. I would very much like this approach to continue.
 
VictorHarder said:
Something like this'd make an awesome finisher in the game.

What I really like is that the opponents don't look slow or clumsy, Geralt's just so much faster - lore friendly.

Amazing! This cg is new to me.

I know it's a hard task, but armour/combat treatment in game should be closest as possible to this...

Could make Geralt OP though, some enemies should block like 60% of his attempts to kill like that, for the sake of balance.
 
Nice thread Victor, I agree a different fighting style for dealing with plate would be a nice detail. Armpit, back of knee, under throat, through visor, groin, buttocks etcetera. To take on battle armour like Henry the Eighths first suit from the field of Cloth of Gold would be an extremely difficult task, aided by the huge weight of that suit, but still a fearsome undertaking even for a Witcher.
 
An "armoured opponent" style would be cool and bring with it a lot more authenticity. This is something that has bothered me slightly, but in cutscenes more than gameplay.
 
Maybe make it so that you pretty much wear down the armored opponent until they get fatigued enough so you can get a shot in the gaps of his armor to finish him off.
 
Okay, now i understand the want for more immersion. Realistic games are my favorite kind but i have come to the realization that they are impossible with our current systems and the way they are set up. We only have so many buttons on a controller and in a RPG there are too many things that need to be used to have an attack button for each chink in the armor and each swing. I dont think we are going to get a game that is as immersive as you are talking about until virtual reality comes about. Its hard to be immersive when all one does is press buttons.
 
First of all - it`s just a game. Not a real life - just artifical system, and as every system it has some assumptions.
Second - the main element in this system is a story (lore, plot, characters etc.) and all other elements created to support that. So, it`s not a sword-fighting simulator.
Third - the game should be fun to play. I mean, something that sounds cool in our imagination, could become surprisingly-boring or just not work out well, when it comes to realisation\play-testing.

And when it comes to armor\weapon designs - only here i found a few opposite visions on this topic. Imagine the difference when it comes to the whole target audience.
I`m idealist myself, but let`s be realistic - nobody will make a game just for the few hardcore fans.

P.S. English isn`t my first language, so please excuse any mistakes.
 
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