[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[SaulTuk]

a) Because it's a video game and he's the PC.
b) He doesn't need to become a legend, really. It would have been perfectly fine to keep the story "small". Keeping the character alive is also a great way to open up fun DLC possibilities, and THERE you can open up the stakes to be huge and worthy of a "legend" status.

Yeah, videogames serves escapism). But from my point of view, we, as a society, are deceived by stories mostly centered around success, which happens very seldom. In any competition the vast majority looses. But everywhere people cheers the victors, dreams of success, whereas vast majority of loosers are ignored at best and despised at worst. This is injust, doesn't represent the real statistics, and instilled into us the lust for personal success at all costs. Which directly lead us to a society of total social atomization and undisputed corporate reign.

 

[TintelFruit]

Trust me. If the DLCs address the question around the soul, i'll be the first one to go with the soulkiller path and explore the extra narrative.
As things are right now I have no reason to gamble with my soul. Especially since the possible sacrafice of it gives me the exact same 6 months as keeping it the Arasaka way.

See I do because I wanted to see Judy happy in the epilogue, I found it selfish for V to just leave her in night city even though they know she's completely miserable there. I also believe that people lose a part of their soul simply by being in Night CIty which is clearly hinted at if you follow the Nomad ending and Judy romance.

The Zen master missions also seem to hint at V keeping the bond between mind and soul very tight which might help them preserve much of their humanity and "soul", because the mission ends on a pretty mystical "cliffhanger".

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

It's not karma, just statistics. A mere percent of merc survives long enough to become fixer like Rogue, mere handfull become legends. Why should V be special? No one is special. And in such a life there are to many chaos too counter it by intellect and cool head.
But yes, V's imminent death is too abrupt and weakly justified to belive and accept it, it looks like "rock falls, everyone dies". Bad writing, as i said. As for my vision of plot and desired engings i had posted it several times, probably i'll find a link

Well... V actually is special.

Assaulting the Arasaka tower is nothing to sneeze at and some of Vs clients are top celebrities.

But even if we ignore that and say that V is not as special as lets say rogue, the end still is BS.

Because killing off characters for the sake of killing them off is just stupid and lame.

Especially with the wonky and badly written explanations on why the brain can not be altered by the chip anymore, despite we would sti have a long way to go to fully establish the new mind. Next thing is the wonky explanation on why it works with saburo.
Next thing is the glorious marketing stunt. I mean arasaka is literally selling immortality at that point - all you have to do is to sacrifice your own offspring? What the fuck?

It does not get any better. Inconsistent writjng at the end. This hurts so much more, because the writing before the endings was far, far better.

 

[onosendai7]

It's not karma, just statistics. A mere percent of merc survives long enough to become fixer like Rogue, mere handfull become legends. Why should V be special? No one is special. And in such a life there are to many chaos too counter it by intellect and cool head.

Simply because it's a RPG and playing a zero has absolutely no interest. If your character is the average Joe or Jane, this is not a RPG, this is IRL. You play characters that are not common people, to go through a story.
There are no statistics involved except you are here to make them wrong. You're not a no-one, you're somebody. And you do not deserve pathetic endings, except if you're dumb enough and make something stupid. A good game master rewards his players. His job is not to kill them for the sake of statistics. It's too easy, and there is nothing fun in it. CDPR is a bad game master.

 

[Kikinho]

See I do because I wanted to see Judy happy in the epilogue, I found it selfish for V to just leave her in night city even though they know she's completely miserable there. I also believe that people lose a part of their soul simply by being in Night CIty which is clearly hinted at if you follow the Nomad ending and Judy romance.

The Zen master missions also seem to hint at V keeping the bond between mind and soul very tight which might help them preserve much of their humanity and "soul", because the mission ends on a pretty mystical "cliffhanger".

I understand 100% where you are coming from. Unfortunately in my first playthrough I didn't finish neither Judy's nor Panam's quest because in the main narrative the urgency of my condition became so apparent that I felt it would be off pacing wise to not focus on my own cure.
I only did Jhonny's quest because I wanted to unlock Kerry.
In my second playthrough I am planning to clear the game 1005 before heading up the elevator.

 

[SaulTuk]

I don't agree with he notion that nobody is special. I don't agree with that in real life, and definitely don't agree with it in a story telling environment.
There are many people who are special either because of personal talent or simply because they were lucky enough to born into privilige. Noone wants to read about non special characters.
You can argue people who are on top of the foodchain, be it in the underworld foodchain or in corpo are special. The player characer has to be special otherwise most of game mechanics wouldn't make sense.

Okay, some 0,0001% of people are special, lucky to born under right curcumstances, winning the gene lottery etc. But the vast majority of people are not special, do not achieve any remarkable success. Many people, especially young, fear to be regular, and easily empathizes V. I do not. And i do want to read about regular character, a peaceful workers and scientists. That's why i like old Star Trek so much, especially episodes without any armed conflict.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

Well. I am definitely not deceived by escapism, because real life reminds me every day...

 

[TintelFruit]

I understand 100% where you are coming from. Unfortunately in my first playthrough I didn't finish neither Judy's nor Panam's quest because in the main narrative the urgency of my condition became so apparent that I felt it would be off pacing wise to not focus on my own cure.
I only did Jhonny's quest because I wanted to unlock Kerry.
In my second playthrough I am planning to clear the game 1005 before heading up the elevator.

You should really do the Zen master missions, it becomes very clear he's helping you prepare for something after the first few meetings, It's one of the reasons I went with risk your soul option.

 

[SaulTuk]

Simply because its a RPG and playing a zero has absolutely no interest. If your character is the average Joe or Jane, this is not a RPG, this is IRL. You play characters that are not common people, to go through a story.
There are no statistics involved except you are here to make them wrong. You're not a no-one, you're somebody. And you do not deserve pathetic endings, except if you're dumb enough and make something stupid. A good game master rewards his players. His job is not to kill them for the sake of statistics. It's too easy, and there is nothing fun in it. CDPR is a bad game master.

Indeed, i agree. Funny, that endings of CP77 do not match its very essence - RPG about someone special and lucky, but matches real life statistics and my personal sense of justice.

 

[Kikinho]

Okay, some 0,0001% of people are special, lucky to born under right curcumstances, winning the gene lottery etc. But the vast majority of people are not special, do not achieve any remarkable success. Many people, especially young, fear to be regular, and easily empathizes V. I do not. And i do want to read about regular character, a peaceful workers and scientists. That's why i like old Star Trek so much, especially episodes without any armed conflict.

But V is in no way and manner a nobody. He is literally a problem solver. He is highly competent and determined. He has all the attributes to be someone special. And if you wanna stay meta, he is someone by the pure fact that he is a player character.

Post automatically merged: Dec 29, 2020

You should really do the Zen master missions, it becomes very clear he's helping you prepare for something after the first few meetings, It's one of the reasons I went with risk your soul option.

I've only met one mission with a zen master in the "park" area in the middle of the city. Is that the one you are talking about?

 

[SaulTuk]

Well... V actually is special.

Assaulting the Arasaka tower is nothing to sneeze at and some of Vs clients are top celebrities.

But even if we ignore that and say that V is not as special as lets say rogue, the end still is BS.

Because killing off characters for the sake of killing them off is just stupid and lame.

Especially with the wonky and badly written explanations on why the brain can not be altered by the chip anymore, despite we would sti have a long way to go to fully establish the new mind. Next thing is the wonky explanation on why it works with saburo.
Next thing is the glorious marketing stunt. I mean arasaka is literally selling immortality at that point - all you have to do is to sacrifice your own offspring? What the fuck?

It does not get any better. Inconsistent writjng at the end. This hurts so much more, because the writing before the endings was far, far better.

I fully agree that writing is bad, and if you want to kill V in the end, you should justify this way better, starting from the very beginning of plot. A good example of protagonist death and good closure - Red Dead Redemption 2.

 

[Kikinho]

Simply because it's a RPG and playing a zero has absolutely no interest. If your character is the average Joe or Jane, this is not a RPG, this is IRL. You play characters that are not common people, to go through a story.
There are no statistics involved except you are here to make them wrong. You're not a no-one, you're somebody. And you do not deserve pathetic endings, except if you're dumb enough and make something stupid. A good game master rewards his players. His job is not to kill them for the sake of statistics. It's too easy, and there is nothing fun in it. CDPR is a bad game master.

Yeah, one of my favourite tropes is a nobody becoming somebody.

 

[TintelFruit]

But V is in no way and manner a nobody. He is literally a problem solver. He is highly competent and determined. He has all the attributes to be someone special. And if you wanna stay meta, he is someone by the pure fact that he is a player character.

Post automatically merged: Dec 29, 2020

I've only met one mission with a zen master in the "park" area in the middle of the city. Is that the one you are talking about?

Yes, There are 3 afterwards all strewn around night city, you end with him disappearing again but leaving a special gift behind.

 

[onosendai7]

Indeed, i agree. Funny, that endings of CP77 do not match its very essence - RPG about someone special and lucky, but matches real life statistics and my personal sense of justice.

That's why it is bad RPG.
RPG is not about statistics or upholding justice and morale, it's about having fun and telling a story.
CDPR should have read "Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads" (Cyberpunk P&P GM guide).

 

[SaulTuk]

But V is in no way and manner a nobody. He is literally a problem solver. He is highly competent and determined. He has all the attributes to be someone special. And if you wanna stay meta, he is someone by the pure fact that he is a player character.

Post automatically merged: Dec 29, 2020

I've only met one mission with a zen master in the "park" area in the middle of the city. Is that the one you are talking about?

True, but even such men as V can be ruined by a bad luck. The game they play are too big and complex to be immune to bad luck. Not that videogame as jenre should kill protagonist that way.

 

[TintelFruit]

True, but even such men as V can be ruined by a bad luck. The game they play are too big and complex to be immune to bad luck. Not that videogame as jenre should kill protagonist that way.

>Men
>V

 

[SaulTuk]

That's why it is bad RPG.
RPG is not about statistics or upholding justice and morale, it's about having fun and telling a story.
CDPR should have read "Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads" (Cyberpunk P&P GM guide).

Bad RPG but not half-bad visual novel in criminal drama genre, where plot is set and protagonist is pre-written and should not immerse players into his skin.

Post automatically merged: Dec 29, 2020

>Men
>V

Or women, no difference)

 

[CongoJack35]

I'm tired of these edgelord endings in games, they suck and makes me wonder why I've played the damn game where I could do anything I want but have the ending I've worked so many hours toward.

 

[onosendai7]

Bad RPG but not half-bad visual novel in criminal drama genre, where plot is set and protagonist is pre-written and should not immerse players into his skin.

That's the problem. I bought a RPG, not a novel. I have no influence on a novel plot or characters. I expect to have some in a RPG.

Post automatically merged: Dec 29, 2020

I'm tired of these edgelord endings in games, they suck and makes me wonder why I've played the damn game where I could do anything I want but have the ending I've worked so many hours toward.

This.
And the fact you don't want to start another game...

 

[SaulTuk]

That's the problem. I bought a RPG, not a novel. I have no influence on a novel plot or characters. I expect to have some in a RPG.

Yes, we have been deceived and got every right to be angry.