[SPOILERS FOR TW1/2/3] Triss Merigold - master manipulator or a victim of circumstance?

[ajiehb]

Really?! Why no one mention that she said to Geralt that she was manipulating him? Or you don't count this, like it was a joke? Of course she is guilty and there isn't any excuses for her because she knew what she was doing to her friend and her love. She never was honest with him until she was conered in Nilfgaard prison and was forced to confess about all she has done. Yes, in 3rd game she is trying to compensate her former sins with her help to the mages. And it's up to player to decide if she deserve Geralt

Yes, she was manipulating Geralt in 1rst and 2nd games and confess about this in 3rd game - there can't be mistake. She never tells why she was doing it so there could be some different opinions.

 

[Adonai-]

The entire conversation in the Nilfgaardian camp can be found in the w2dialog.txt file posted here, search for "q304_08_meet_triss".

Thank you! That must have been a pain to put together...I think the part I'm remembering is "I never lied to you... I just didn't tell you everything…" which was markedly different to the first time I rescued her (I think I was much more effusive to her the first time around).

If you think of it as a "game mechanic" thing it does make sense. However if you think of it in terms of storyline, I still don't see how Triss, once she saw that Geralt was alive, could not have thought, at least once "oh maybe Yennefer's still alive too then!" I don't say that she knew Yen was still alive, I say that she must have at some point thought it could be a possibility.

Yes, you'd think someone might have mentioned the possibility that Yennefer might be alive, or even a "how's that daughter of yours, Geralt?". Technically, Regis gets more of a shout-out than Ciri does...

 

[ReptilePZ]

Really?! Why no one mention that she said to Geralt that she was manipulating him? Or you don't count this, like it was a joke?

She does manipulate him - at the very least in TW1, so that she can get into Foltest's position. That doesn't mean it has to be about Yen. That line is ambiguous for a reason.

Yes, you'd think someone might have mentioned the possibility that Yennefer might be alive, or even a "how's that daughter of yours, Geralt?". Technically, Regis gets more of a shout-out than Ciri does...

I think all of the talk about Ciri/Yen happens off-screen, between TW1 and TW2, as indicated by Dandelion in TW2. It's just that nobody actually knows much when it comes to how Geralt is still alive, or what happened to Ciri and Yen. So, even if they ask those questions, there aren't a lot of leads to pursue.

Until Geralt starts recovering his memory in TW2 - the events with Letho and the WH, which are only known to Geralt and nobody else.

 

[ajiehb]

She does manipulate him - at the very least in TW1, so that she can get into Foltest's position. That doesn't mean it has to be about Yen. That line is ambiguous for a reason.

So there are themes that can be used to manipulate people or should I say your friends? Quite interesting point of view. Anyway in my opinion she can't be a victim of the Lodge. It was her choice and she is guilty. There are evidence of this in game and I can't say she is a victim of circumstance.

 

[Gilthoniel]

I was wondering guys what do you think about her faking to be drunk during The Masquerade Ball quest? When you refuse to kiss her by the fountain she is immediately sober...isn't that sort of manipulation too?

 

[zappy3]

I was wondering guys what do you think about her faking to be drunk during The Masquerade Ball quest? When you refuse to kiss her by the fountain she is immediately sober...isn't that sort of manipulation too?

THANK YOU! I thought I was the only one who was like "seriously Triss?" during that scene.
That being said "manipulation" is a bit strong in that case I think, more like "weird way to seduce a guy".

 

[StandardEpiphany]

So there are themes that can be used to manipulate people or should I say your friends? Quite interesting point of view. Anyway in my opinion she can't be a victim of the Lodge. It was her choice and she is guilty. There are evidence of this in game and I can't say she is a victim of circumstance.

She makes a conscious decision to continue getting involved with the Lodge despite what that had entailed in the past, and she gets Geralt involved in a messy political plot without clueing him in. Yes, she did wrong and she manipulated him. But she is in over her head, as usual, ends up regretting it, and tries to make up for it in TW3. She's not a victim, although she is victimized in the games. She just made bad/dubious judgement calls because she doesn't have her priorities sorted out, as is her wont.

Triss wants political power and social priviledge and she does a lot to get it, but she also wants (at least I give her the benefit of doubt that she does) to do good to Geralt and the rest of the people she holds dear (Ciri, Yennefer, etc.) It's a difficult balancing act.

 

[Krull32]

I was wondering guys what do you think about her faking to be drunk during The Masquerade Ball quest? When you refuse to kiss her by the fountain she is immediately sober...isn't that sort of manipulation too?

Well, i found that moment/scene only embarrassing to be honest.
Not romantic or sweet or funny ...

 

[ReptilePZ]

So there are themes that can be used to manipulate people or should I say your friends? Quite interesting point of view. Anyway in my opinion she can't be a victim of the Lodge. It was her choice and she is guilty. There are evidence of this in game and I can't say she is a victim of circumstance.

Oh, I'm not trying to excuse Triss' actions, and I also don't think everything that happens falls into place the way it does simply by chance. Like I said, my personal position is that Triss outplays Sile and Phil in the sorceress "games" they play behind the scenes. I just think the focus is wrongly on Triss and Yen, when the real manipulation happens regarding the Lodge and Triss' position in power. In the end, Geralt can absolutely end up with Yen, but Triss always ends up in a position of power, no matter what.

All of the seemingly happy - for Triss - coincidences that lead to Triss getting into a position of power at the court of the wealthiest ruler and leader of the mages, somehow always involve Geralt intervening on behalf of Triss, with people in all 3 games telling the player not to trust Triss - all in the context of political conversations.

I was wondering guys what do you think about her faking to be drunk during The Masquerade Ball quest? When you refuse to kiss her by the fountain she is immediately sober...isn't that sort of manipulation too?

She wasn't drunk, she was "tipsy". You don't get drunk from a sip.

Anyway, it's Geralt's choice to kiss her or not. Kisses are also not a binding contract or anything, so I don't think it's a particularly big deal or a great feat of manipulation...

 

[Gilthoniel]

She wasn't drunk, she was "tipsy". You don't get drunk from a sip.

https://youtu.be/exGf-w2ROPI?t=30m4s - she said: I sure hope other guests don't get drunk as quickly as I did...when you refuse to kiss her she is immediately sober (changed voice)...so not sure it was a little bit weird.

 

[wright1978]

I was wondering guys what do you think about her faking to be drunk during The Masquerade Ball quest? When you refuse to kiss her by the fountain she is immediately sober...isn't that sort of manipulation too?

I think she's liberated for a second from the constraints she's placed on herself and in regards Geralt. I'd describe it as playful rather than manipulative. Geralt not pursuing the kiss understandably has a hugely sobering effect on her. Equally even if you kiss her she suddenly panics and closes down again when you try and bring it up in the stables, which to me clearly shows it wasn't deliberate manipulation but an act of spontaneity.

 

[ReptilePZ]

https://youtu.be/exGf-w2ROPI?t=30m4s - she said: I sure hope other guests don't get drunk as quickly as I did...when you refuse to kiss her she is immediately sober (changed voice)...so not sure it was a little bit weird.

She is immediately sober even if you do kiss her - it's a different scene at that point. Voice actors are no longer instructed to "act drunk", most likely.

It's not something that achieves much anyway - going for the kiss or avoiding it has no consequences, so, again, I don't think it's a situation that deserves much attention. It's there for people that are pursuing a romance with her (or are indecisive).

 

[Gilthoniel]

I think she's liberated for a second from the constraints she's placed on herself and in regards Geralt. I'd describe it as playful rather than manipulative. Geralt not pursuing the kiss understandably has a hugely sobering effect on her. Equally even if you kiss her she suddenly panics and closes down again when you try and bring it up in the stables, which to me clearly shows it wasn't deliberate manipulation but an act of spontaneity.

Well knowing her past for me personally it was strange acting - knowing the fact he can be back with Yen and still do this...I know that people who romance Triss love this scene but for me it was a little bit shady. Anyway thanks for the comments guys.

 

[Krull32]

Well knowing her past

knowing the fact he can be back to Yen and still do this

Aye.
Under these conditions.. well..you know...

But everyone sees this different. for me it was a bad try

 

[StandardEpiphany]

Oh, I'm not trying to excuse Triss' actions, and I also don't think everything that happens falls into place the way it does simply by chance. Like I said, my personal position is that Triss outplays Sile and Phil in the sorceress "games" they play behind the scenes. I just think the focus is wrongly on Triss and Yen, when the real manipulation happens regarding the Lodge and Triss' position in power. In the end, Geralt can absolutely end up with Yen, but Triss always ends up in a position of power, no matter what.

All of the seemingly happy - for Triss - coincidences that lead to Triss getting into a position of power at the court of the wealthiest ruler and leader of the mages, somehow always involve Geralt intervening on behalf of Triss, with people in all 3 games telling the player not to trust Triss - all in the context of political conversations.



She wasn't drunk, she was "tipsy". You don't get drunk from a sip.

Anyway, it's Geralt's choice to kiss her or not. Kisses are also not a binding contract or anything, so I don't think it's a particularly big deal or a great feat of manipulation...

It's interesting, yes, how Geralt always just happens to be there to help her advance towards her ultimate political goal. It's like an undercurrent to their interactions throughout the trilogy. Is it plain old manipulation? A string of happy coincidences? Maybe it's both and she just takes advantage of the situations that arise instead of actively creating them. Too bad that the political angle never gets properly explored in TW3.

 

[sv3672]

Very much in the theory 1 camp. That doesn't mean she'd an angel but to me you've got to rationalise that she believes Yen is dead as everyone does in TW1. Also i don't see Nilfgaard lodge members surrendering that information even if they did know it.

Yes, and "theory 1 (mostly)" makes more sense simply because it is overall more consistent with the story of all three games. I doubt CDPR would put a secret antagonist (if you believe some of the stuff that can be read on forums) that can never be confronted - other than some complaints about the Lodge - in their games.

It's not something that achieves much anyway - going for the kiss or avoiding it has no consequences, so, again, I don't think it's a situation that deserves much attention. It's there for people that are pursuing a romance with her (or are indecisive).

It does have some consequences - without the kiss, the romance path is locked out.

And we also know that she keeps pushing Geralt into distrusting Sile, who threatens Triss' position in the Lodge and also happens to be the ex-advisor in Kovir, which is the position Triss ends up with (as well as heading the new Council and Conclave), after she's ruined Sile's plan with the help of Geralt.

Well, if she planned everything about Kovir and her future position there already during the events of the second game, that does take a master manipulator. By the way, what happens if they player simply refuses to do those quests, does she still end up in Kovir as advisor anyway ? I am not sure if this is explained in the game.

Regarding people telling Geralt not to trust her, they tend to do the same when talking about Yennefer, sorceresses and other magic users in general are treated with suspicion.

 

[StandardEpiphany]

It does have some consequences - without the kiss, the romance path is locked out.

Really? Well, that's... weird (off-topic as well).

 

[xxRENEGADExx]

Well knowing her past for me personally it was strange acting - knowing the fact he can be back with Yen and still do this...

I think that was the fastest they to know if there are still any sparks between her and Geralt. If Geralt didn't kiss her - she will leave to Kovir, even if Geralt will say: "I love you".
All this scene with her is a result of post long stress condition, alcohol and her feelings to Geralt.

---------- Updated at 02:39 PM ----------

Really? Well, that's... weird (off-topic as well).

Yes. I laugh after reading comments like: "Can't romance Triss. I didn't kiss her. I didn't want to use situation. And now Triss doesn't return and leave. SOS." :hrhr:

 

[Krull32]

All this scene with her is a result of post long stress condition, alcohol and her feelings to Geralt.

one sip ? :teeth:
She wasn't drunk. So the alcohol did not speech out of her
She knows what she's doing

Yes. I laugh after reading comments like: "Can't romance Triss. I didn't kiss her. I didn't want to use situation. And now Triss doesn't return and leave. SOS."

Thats hard.. no kiss no fun :lol:

 

[sv3672]

Yes. I laugh after reading comments like: "Can't romance Triss. I didn't kiss her. I didn't want to use situation. And now Triss doesn't return and leave. SOS." :hrhr:

The comments about It Takes Three to Tango are even funnier, though. Anyway, the reason why the kiss makes a difference is probably that she is really struggling to decide whether to stay or leave (that is why she says nothing when told "I love you"), and only with the memory of the kiss does she ultimately turn back and return from the boat.