The Triss content and the inconsistency of our romance's choice

[Gerald01]

@Redemyr
Wow, that is a beautiful and touching post and I agree with you on most things, and can identify with your experience with BW and also the Witcher series.
I guess the main difference between you and me is that I both had my memory of the past installments dulled by the years (only replayed Witcher 2 AFTER completing 3 for the first time) and got "tricked" by the game in not romancing Triss (due to the Djikstra bug).

Let me tell you, it was a blessing. After the fact, I got all worked up and ended up.. here, but while playing, and letting myself follow the flow of story and the clearly intended proper romance path (with Yen) I got to experience one of the best virtual adventure I've ever had the pleasure of.

Essentially due to sheer luck, because as you say the game is very well done, but as a personal experience it can and will go wrong under certain circumstances.
I am 100% convinced that I would be now in your shoes had I both replayed the Witcher 2 in anticipation to the release of this one, or successfully pursued Triss the first time round. My journey would be tainted and no matter the future modifications or different replays, that'd be it.
You can certainly try, but you'll never be able to reach as high emotional notes and wonderment as the first time (provided you don't wait so much time you forget completely about your first go, which in game terms is nearly impossible).
Particularly the awareness of having spoilt your only chance would really bother me, and a bitter taste in my mouth would remind me of things that could have been and never were.
But such is life.

On a more cheerful note, and technical standpoint, I too do not give the game a perfect score. Nay, I detract 1 point for the graphical downgrade (I was convinced the game was going to be like the 2014 demo video I had downloaded uncompressed, 5+GB of splendor) and 2 points for the treatment, unbefitting, Triss received (in addition to technical issues). So that's a 7/10 from me when all is said and done.

Maybe our reviews are not objective or fair, but a correct evaluation of what the game did for us (which is after all paramount from our point of view) nonetheless.

I don't know what to tell you, I hope you'll get to experience the game again in some time with a different result, if fixed.
Or maybe you could try to distance yourself from your story and focus on Geralt's (which is not YOUR Geralt, or MINE, that is much is clear as far as the dev intentions go). Choose Yennefer, or rather "let the story unfold as it is supposed to" and try to appreciate the story for what it is. A story you have no input in, but a beautiful tale nonetheless.

Cheers.

 

[Riddlin]

We are all just small a drop in the ocean.

In the end, it is up to the devs to figure out if players sharing these PoVs represent a significant enough portion of that ocean to justify the effort of making these changes or not. Good/bad intentions aside, they are a company that depends on their reputation and their customers to survive and thrive.

I can't speak to all your thoughts but this last bit...

I did a bit of math on this very subject last night, at once it was bleak and promising. True this is a small fraction of the total customer base but it is growing! More than a few blogs have picked up on it, REDDIT is a wash in it and facebook pages are getting posts! The games been out a month!

The most interesting thing I've seen is, a dev comes on the thread and acknowledged CDPR thinks the issues we are discussing here IS indeed a problem! That was a first for me in my 30+ years(EDIT had to do the math...1982 til now) of PC gaming! Sierra never did that. EA would burst into flames if they said that kind of thing. Bioware...maybe they did with their version of the same fiasco. No way Rockstar would even talk to the customers! So for me, having them say that was a big deal!

It means, however it goes down, they understand what we are saying and they are listening...and more importantly, some of them agree.

We need to make sure we have a focused precise response when they come calling...I think we are working on that now

 

[DaWitcher]

It would be nice to get a full experience from the game. I can not speak for anyone but myself but at this point it is impossible to romance Yen just so the game can feel right.

I don't have to romance Yen in the game to see that it will flow differently if you romance her. The gamebplay makes that painfully obvious throught the 100+ hour of play.

I would romance Triss over and over even if it meant ending with the same hollow feeling every time.

I was looking forward to having so many choices in this game. I expected the game to explore every possibility with choices instead it's a single path game that pretend to offer choices. It looks like an RPG but play like scripted missions.

 

[justname]

@Riddlin

I'm just curious. So what if they decide to make a couple of extra dialogues. Let's count. They should rehire at least Geralt, Triss and Yenn voice actors. There are 7 different languages. In total 21 actors. From different countries. Is it even possible? And i didnt count all the other voice actors such as Dandelion, Zoltan, Ciri, Lambert, Eskel. That's 56. No way they can do it.

 

[DaWitcher]

I can't speak to all your thoughts but this last bit...

I did a bit of math on this very subject last night, at once it was bleak and promising. True this is a small fraction of the total customer base but it is growing! More than a few blogs have picked up on it, REDDIT is a wash in it and facebook pages are getting posts! The games been out a month!

The most interesting thing I've seen is, a dev comes on the thread and acknowledged CDPR thinks the issues we are discussing here IS indeed a problem! That was a first for me in my 30+ years(EDIT had to do the math...1982 til now) of PC gaming! Sierra never did that. EA would burst into flames if they said that kind of thing. Bioware...maybe they did with their version of the same fiasco. No way Rockstar would even talk to the customers! So for me, having them say that was a big deal!

It means, however it goes down, they understand what we are saying and they are listening...and more importantly, some of them agree.

We need to make sure we have a focused precise response when they come calling...I think we are working on that now

Maybe we should jump on reddit and invite people here?

 

[Gerald01]

@Riddlin

I'm just curious. So what if they decide to make a couple of extra dialogues. Let's count. They should rehire at least Geralt, Triss and Yenn voice actors. There are 7 different languages. In total 21 actors. From different countries. Is it even possible? And i didnt count all the other voice actors such as Dandelion, Zoltan, Ciri, Lambert, Eskel. That's 56. No way they can do it.

By this logic, DLCs would be impossible and/or cost 50$ each and take 6 months of work

 

[justname]

By this logic, DLCs would be impossible and/or cost 50$ each and take 6 months of work

Yes, but the problem is they've done all the DLC and the main game voiceover at the same time way before release.

 

[Redemyr]

I did mean to say, individually we are drops in an ocean.... how many drops were not happy with what we got, I cannot say, certainly more than the thousand or so who voted... perhaps we are enough to make at least a river or maybe a sea?

On a more positive note, I did get to post here and meet and interact with lot of cool people... who knows, maybe I would have been just a lurker like last time or just posted something like "this game is all I've ever wanted, love you CDPR" and made them a shrine in my backyard (if I had any, I live in an apartment)

Perhaps this whole thing will amount to nothing, or we'll get so much Triss content we'll drown on it (what a nice way to go,right?)

In any case I take comfort in the fact that in the not so far future, we will all be playing GWENT online together... and I'll be playing my Triss, who will have the scorch upgrade, the moment you play your Eredin horn ability + crones

 

[lwp]

I was looking forward to having so many choices in this game. I expected the game to explore every possibility with choices instead it's a single path game that pretend to offer choices. It looks like an RPG but play like scripted missions.

Even the choices with the Baron, Dijkstra, etc. seem pretty shallow. In TW2 your choice at the end of Act 1 lead to two completely different Act 2s culminating with the Draugr fight.

I don't have to romance Yen in the game to see that it will flow differently if you romance her. The gamebplay makes that painfully obvious throught the 100+ hour of play.

On my second playthrough, went with Yen first, Triss this time. It's awkward how Yen is getting thrown in Geralt's face over and over again. I get a nice scene with Triss during the find Phillipa quest about a possible future in Kovir, but then she just sits on the boat and hangs out with Avallac'h and gang. I get that because of the common bond that Yen and Geralt share in Ciri that they are obviously going to have moments together that Triss wouldn't feel apart of.
I didn't quite believe all of it while reading this thread, but now I'm about to start the final mission and it feels like I was cheated out of a well developed romance with Triss.

 

[BVBUTD]

Hi everyone. I’ve been on the thread for a while but I never really gave my opinion on the Triss issue or the game itself. For me the game is great, very well made from a technical standpoint. The only issue I have is that to me the game is a better overall experience if you haven’t played any of the other witcher games, which is a very strange dynamic from the third game in a trilogy. It would be like if the third LOTR movie was a better experience if you hadn’t seen the first two, it just doesn’t make sense. I just feel like the main story issues that have been addressed in this thread and others aren’t experienced by new comers to the series. Most (not all but I’m sure quite a few) new comers would probably choose Yennifer as the love interest, as it is heavily hinted within the first few missions of the game or they would try to romance both and be left with the threesome scene. All the flirting and dialogue in relation to Yen and Geralt’s relationship is perfect for these new players. This is where problems start to appear for us, the people how choose Triss and have developed a relationship with her since the first game.

Then you have characters like Zoltan and Dandelion who are Gerlat’s closest friends, not that a new comer would know considering how little they’re mentioned in the game. Again this is something only players of the first two games would notice and find frustrating.

Then you have the choices that carry over from the second game which don’t really make any difference, just pick ‘I didn’t kill him/her’ and you’ll get to meet them and get a more developed story. Roche/Iorveth choice doesn’t really affect the game either, and new players won’t be confused about the fate of Iorveth as they have never met the character.

This is just what I thought while playing through the game, maybe you guys had a different experience. For me this is a 10/10 game if you’re new to the series and lesser if played the other two.

 

[DaWitcher]

Even the choices with the Baron, Dijkstra, etc. seem pretty shallow. In TW2 your choice at the end of Act 1 lead to two completely different Act 2s culminating with the Draugr fight.

On my second playthrough, went with Yen first, Triss this time. It's awkward how Yen is getting thrown in Geralt's face over and over again. I get a nice scene with Triss during the find Phillipa quest about a possible future in Kovir, but then she just sits on the boat and hangs out with Avallac'h and gang. I get that because of the common bond that Yen and Geralt share in Ciri that they are obviously going to have moments together that Triss wouldn't feel apart of.
I didn't quite believe all of it while reading this thread, but now I'm about to start the final mission and it feels like I was cheated out of a well developed romance with Triss.

Oh the horrible lonely feeling, I wish I could shield you from it. I felt the same way, like I was cheated out of the beautiful romantic love story that is Geralt and Triss.

I love pursuing Triss during the game. She wants to leave for Kovir and put the past behind her and I wanted her to stay with me. You can see during the game that she is confuse, hurt and afraid to try again. Geralt is also unsure and confuse until Now or Never, but his feelings are as clear as day.

During the game Yen is shoved in your face from start to finish. The game spare no effort making you feel like your choice to be with Triss is incorrect.

Despite all that I will pick her every time because, their story is so beautiful and feels real. Geralt and Triss finds True Love even tho the odds were stacked again them. That's how I see it. I can sacrafice and accept that empty feeling because I prefer their love story.

Hi everyone. I’ve been on the thread for a while but I never really gave my opinion on the Triss issue or the game itself. For me the game is great, very well made from a technical standpoint. The only issue I have is that to me the game is a better overall experience if you haven’t played any of the other witcher games, which is a very strange dynamic from the third game in a trilogy. It would be like if the third LOTR movie was a better experience if you hadn’t seen the first two, it just doesn’t make sense. I just feel like the main story issues that have been addressed in this thread and others aren’t experienced by new comers to the series. Most (not all but I’m sure quite a few) new comers would probably choose Yennifer as the love interest, as it is heavily hinted within the first few missions of the game or they would try to romance both and be left with the threesome scene. All the flirting and dialogue in relation to Yen and Geralt’s relationship is perfect for these new players. This is where problems start to appear for us, the people how choose Triss and have developed a relationship with her since the first game.

Then you have characters like Zoltan and Dandelion who are Gerlat’s closest friends, not that a new comer would know considering how little they’re mentioned in the game. Again this is something only players of the first two games would notice and find frustrating.

Then you have the choices that carry over from the second game which don’t really make any difference, just pick ‘I didn’t kill him/her’ and you’ll get to meet them and get a more developed story. Roche/Iorveth choice doesn’t really affect the game either, and new players won’t be confused about the fate of Iorveth as they have never met the character.

This is just what I thought while playing through the game, maybe you guys had a different experience. For me this is a 10/10 game if you’re new to the series and lesser if played the other two.

Agreed




"If you love two people at the same time, choose the second. Because if you really loved the first one, you wouldn’t have fallen for the second". -Johnny Depp

 

[Monkey_Molester]

I could explain in detail why I like Triss so much, but I think Geralt's VA does a great job explaining how I feel.

https://youtu.be/GTsy43v2wIA?t=16m31s

Watch the questions at [16:30] and [34:14] for when he talks about it.

 

[DaWitcher]

I could explain in detail why I like Triss so much, but I think Geralt's VA does a great job explaining how I feel.

https://youtu.be/GTsy43v2wIA?t=16m31s

Watch the questions at [16:30] and [34:14] for when he talks about it.

So true

 

[SoleilMeurtri]

I like Triss because she has that sensibility, she is sweet,emotional, and the way she looks at the protagonist tell a huge story, when i first met her, i had Creep of Radiohead in my head, feelings the regrets, the envy, the love, the suffer, and the joy in her eyes. Remind me of someone i used to know, and always love for sure.
Triss is balanced in her artificial confidence and her bad esteem of herself, trying the must to believe in things. She tries to protect herself with a shield, for not suffering more. But this shield is so artificial. She has the heart opened, she is an excessive girl, and really care for the people around. But the only song that can really explain their relationship is Lamento della Ninfa of Claudio Monteverdi.

 

[SiamiFW]

Hi everyone. I’ve been on the thread for a while but I never really gave my opinion on the Triss issue or the game itself. For me the game is great, very well made from a technical standpoint. The only issue I have is that to me the game is a better overall experience if you haven’t played any of the other witcher games, which is a very strange dynamic from the third game in a trilogy. It would be like if the third LOTR movie was a better experience if you hadn’t seen the first two, it just doesn’t make sense. I just feel like the main story issues that have been addressed in this thread and others aren’t experienced by new comers to the series. Most (not all but I’m sure quite a few) new comers would probably choose Yennifer as the love interest, as it is heavily hinted within the first few missions of the game or they would try to romance both and be left with the threesome scene. All the flirting and dialogue in relation to Yen and Geralt’s relationship is perfect for these new players. This is where problems start to appear for us, the people how choose Triss and have developed a relationship with her since the first game.

Then you have characters like Zoltan and Dandelion who are Gerlat’s closest friends, not that a new comer would know considering how little they’re mentioned in the game. Again this is something only players of the first two games would notice and find frustrating.

Then you have the choices that carry over from the second game which don’t really make any difference, just pick ‘I didn’t kill him/her’ and you’ll get to meet them and get a more developed story. Roche/Iorveth choice doesn’t really affect the game either, and new players won’t be confused about the fate of Iorveth as they have never met the character.

This is just what I thought while playing through the game, maybe you guys had a different experience. For me this is a 10/10 game if you’re new to the series and lesser if played the other two.

Actually, I am one of the newbies and I chose Triss. I chose her because IMO she really cares about Geralt and wants him to be happy. So, this relationship felt somehow deeper (and healthier) than the other. And I agree, you are thrown at Yen right from the start. But that fits the story perfectly. They are bound by a Djinn, aren't they?

Anyway. Even for me as a newbie to the witcher games the lack of interactions with Triss in the endphase is recognizable and somehow sad. And I still think this is, because they build it up so well that my expectations of the outcome of this relationship were higher than a "Well?". Which is impressive given the fact that I don't expect anything about romance in a game since I met Skyrim's version of romance... So, props to the witcher 3!

And again, I would definitly pay for more Triss content, and I bet I'm not the only one.

 

[justname]

They are bound by a Djinn, aren't they?

This is a complicated story. Yen and Geralt themselves are not sure. They assume djinn can cheat them or something like that. I can't remember anything else.

 

[wright1978]

Okay its 2AM here I should really get to bed. List so far:

Number 1 - One extra scene with Triss just before the final battle (My preference is that I would like to able to give Triss back the Rose of rememberance with it blooming)


Number 4 - I feel as though Yen should confront Triss at Kaer Morhen, as it stands only Geralt gets shouted at - example= After Uma has transformed and Avalache has revealed Ciri's location. Geralt leaves the main gate and Triss arrives in the courtyard. They have a moment togther and Yen hears them - shitstorm begins lol. ------------------------------- Idea from @wright1978

l

Regarding No 1 this is the potential scene i sketched some time ago, which gives what i want from a final skellige scene.(I'm not that bothered by seeing the rose bloom but i certainly wouldn't complain if it did)

Triss is standing guard on deck keeping an eye on Avallac’h

Triss: "Geralt"

Geralt: “Did you see they’ve got a lighthouse on Eldberg?”

Triss : “Yes it looks a rather fine specimen. Pity duty keeps us from exploring it together.”

Geralt. “A choice between you and a lighthouse versus discussing politics with Philippa……”

Triss(laughs), then suddenly serious. “Feels strange to laugh, when things are so perilous . We’re going head to head with the wild hunt and that scares me. We could all die.”

Geralt Reaches into pocket and gives her back rose of remembrance and says, “In case anything happens I want you to have this back.”

Triss: “But It’s wilted.”

Geralt: “You know how i feel about elven legends, It’s the words and feelings behind it that matter.”

Triss: “Then come back to me safe as I need you, not just the rose.” (tears glistening in her eyes)



Regarding four this is the potential scene i sketched some time ago, which gives what i want from a Triss Kaer Morhen arrival scene and Yen/Triss confrontation.

Geralt’s checking Roach’s tackle, the horse whinnies as she hears the sound of a magical portal nearby. Triss wanders in. In romanced version Geralt goes to her and kisses her. In non-romanced or threesome version Geralt awkwardly keeps his distance. Geralt explains they know where Ciri is and he needs to go get her and gather allies.
Yen is standing on steps, arms crossed in fury. Lambert makes some quip along lines of .

“Here I was thinking Geralt had finally listened regarding dangerous women.”(If romanced)
Or
“More dangerous women, just what we need.”(If not romanced)

Triss walks towards Yen, confidently and defiantly.

Yen snippily says “Thought i'd be more mature but once again I want to grab you by your matted red hair “
Triss bristles back “Like last time I’ll scratch your eyes out if you try.”

Yen turns and stalks off. Vesemir says ‘Let’s find you a bed Triss, somewhere far from Yennefer.”

Lambert mutters, “There’s a nice one lying in the courtyard”.
Triss looks quizzically as she follows Vesemir into Kaer Morhen.

 

[shaedhen]

So, I couldn't really follow everything that happened those last few days, however, I saw two different responses from the REDs.
First :

What Marcin meant by saying it's not a "bug", is that it's not a simple issue of improperly implemented dialogue that we could fix with hotfix patch (some people suggested that). It's not the case of us having the recorded dialogue we could use there, being blocked by some bug.

It also does not mean that we don't consider this as an issue.

Second, thx to @aleister_l :

Hello there,
We're not going to recreate the state of the world after the ending of the game, as it would demand enormous changes in the game's content. Actually, this would be a bigger content change than all our DLCs and Expansion Passes summed up.

There are also no plans on changing Triss's storyline.

Well, I'm sure that your friends won't pay for future DLCs as they are all free Only Expansion Passes will cost money. - they should be released in Autumn.

Apologies if this was discussed before, but to me it seems there's something wrong in the communication there. I think there's kind of a misunderstanding in what we want, what they won't do, and what they might do.

As I understand it, there is no plan to change the Triss storyline which means she will still be at Novigrad, then disappear and come later to Kaer Morhen, etc. We should not except to see anything else or new. But, the lack of dialog with her is considered as an issue. And while this cannot be fixed in a hotfix, this could be fixed later, in one way or another.
So basically no New Triss content but maybe fixes to the poor dialog lines in a major patch that could come out on expansion release or something like that.

Not the best news that's for sure, however I'm more disappointed by the cryptic communication we got on this. So far everything led to a "maybe we'll do something" while the last answer that aleister got sounds like a "definitely not gonna happen". Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what was said ?

 

[justname]

Number 4 - I feel as though Yen should confront Triss at Kaer Morhen, as it stands only Geralt gets shouted at - example= After Uma has transformed and Avalache has revealed Ciri's location. Geralt leaves the main gate and Triss arrives in the courtyard. They have a moment togther and Yen hears them - shitstorm begins lol. ------------------------------- Idea from @wright1978

I don't think there is a place for a catfight between Triss and Yenn in KM. Neither before the siege or after. They are not some highschool girls, they understand that everybody can die if they will not cooperate. And their personal feelings are not important at that moment. But i agree with you, there is should be a little bit more of clarification. If i remember correctly Triss is the only one who doesn't have any dialogues at all.

 

[LionOfVenice]

So, I couldn't really follow everything that happened those last few days, however, I saw two different responses from the REDs.
First :


Second, thx to @aleister_l :


Apologies if this was discussed before, but to me it seems there's something wrong in the communication there. I think there's kind of a misunderstanding in what we want, what they won't do, and what they might do.

As I understand it, there is no plan to change the Triss storyline which means she will still be at Novigrad, then disappear and come later to Kaer Morhen, etc. We should not except to see anything else or new. But, the lack of dialog with her is considered as an issue. And while this cannot be fixed in a hotfix, this could be fixed later, in one way or another.
So basically no New Triss content but maybe fixes to the poor dialog lines in a major patch that could come out on expansion release or something like that.

Not the best news that's for sure, however I'm more disappointed by the cryptic communication we got on this. So far everything led to a "maybe we'll do something" while the last answer that aleister got sounds like a "definitely not gonna happen". Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what was said ?

Yes, you get the point. It seems clear that if they do something it will be minor changes.The problem is they are still doing nothing at this point.

I forgot to mention: The first is an official response form a dev, the second is a post from an user we don't know if it's legit.