Of course it would be even better if Geralt had a personal (long-term) relationsship with the respective alchemist/pharmacist, someone who he trusts.
cough Kalkstein cough
I hope he returns in one way or another.
cough Kalkstein cough
I hope he returns in one way or another.
Well, do you think he has crafted his swords himself? If he doesn't trust a pharmacy why should he trust a blacksmith? I mean the quality of his swords is even more important than the quality of his potions...
Of course it would be even better if Geralt had a personal (long-term) relationsship with the respective alchemist/pharmacist, someone who he trusts.
I am sorry, but I edited my post after you answered me. Here is the edited part, so tell me what you think of it?
why don't you find it lore breaking that a bookseller can have for sale witcher formulas, since they are suposed to be "secret" and i do believe that you could buy potions if not for sure oils from Abigail in TW1
Kalkstein seems to be the more obvious choice to me but yeah, someone who he trusts would be perfect of course.
Well, that sucks. Just noticed the prompt in the sign-wheel-thing, thanks.
This really doesn't help the whole potion mess.
cough Kalkstein cough
I hope he returns in one way or another.
Make a poll!
As far as my memory goes, you couldn't find the more important potions from Witcher's laboratory from the vendors, and even if that were the case, Geralt had amnesia and the secrets were stolen, CDPR had to find a way to get you the recipes in one way or another.
But this is more of a CDPR's fault because they are creating a "solution" for a non-existing problem
Well, Vesemir and the other witchers should know the receipes for most of the potions Geralt uses...
@Klavi
The auto-refill was never aimed to work in the same way as in Dark Souls.
The alchemy in the first game was great but had a trouble that was not linked directly to it : you had too much ingredients for it to be really challenging. Every time I played it, my inventory was full of them which made the "exploration" bit absolutely meaningless. I never had to go to the swanp, or the fields, or wherever because I was in need of some kind of plant. I just took those I passed by and I was still able to create as much potions as I needed.
I didn't really like the system in the second game : too many kind of reagents and the list interface made it messy and kind of unreadable. Plus the intoxication that was changed to a mere limitation of drinkable potions and not the "can I drink another one right now or is it too dangerous" system of the first game. And there was the same problem as in the first : even when just picking things as you go, without exploring, you had so much ingredients that making potions was in no way a challenge.
But I liked he idea of powerful potion with greater advantages than normal ones but with drawbacks.
First time I read about the current system of the third game, I was like "meh". Then I tried to see it gameplay-wise, cause it might be just horribly difficult to find a way to justify it lore-wise.
The trouble with the way alchemy was in the first 2 games was tha there were too much ingredients everywhere to make the creation of potions challenging, except, maybe, at the beginning of each game. With so much of everything, once you knew the formula of a potion, you could just spam its creation, cause you were barely limited. There was no challenge in finding ingredients, only in finding the best combination of potion to drink for somme fight.
The same system could exist in the third game (it was good in the first game, less so in the second one) but the overaboundance of ingredients should be dealt with to bring a little challenge. Or weak potions use very common reagents and, the more powerful the potions go, the rarer the reagent so that we would use them with caution, as something that it truly decisive in a battle.
The system that was announced, while seemingly illogical lore-wise, could work gameplay-wise in the same way that I said before : common ingredients for the first stages of each potion, rare and/or unique ones as it grows more powerful, to encourage exploration and finding of these.
There would be one drawback less : once you made a powerful one you can try it and not fear to use it for an unworthy fight, as you could just reuse it afterward.
And it would add another drawback : you can use really powerful potion seemingly 'at will' and it might just break the game if it is too powerful.
All in all, it is a question of how the game is balanced which will make either system work.
I didn't really like the system in the second game : too many kind of reagents and the list interface made it messy and kind of unreadable. Plus the intoxication that was changed to a mere limitation of drinkable potions and not the "can I drink another one right now or is it too dangerous" system of the first game. And there was the same problem as in the first : even when just picking things as you go, without exploring, you had so much ingredients that making potions was in no way a challenge.
But I liked he idea of powerful potion with greater advantages than normal ones but with drawbacks.
First time I read about the current system of the third game, I was like "meh". Then I tried to see it gameplay-wise, cause it might be just horribly difficult to find a way to justify it lore-wise.
The trouble with the way alchemy was in the first 2 games was tha there were too much ingredients everywhere to make the creation of potions challenging, except, maybe, at the beginning of each game. With so much of everything, once you knew the formula of a potion, you could just spam its creation, cause you were barely limited. There was no challenge in finding ingredients, only in finding the best combination of potion to drink for somme fight.
The same system could exist in the third game (it was good in the first game, less so in the second one) but the overaboundance of ingredients should be dealt with to bring a little challenge. Or weak potions use very common reagents and, the more powerful the potions go, the rarer the reagent so that we would use them with caution, as something that it truly decisive in a battle.
The system that was announced, while seemingly illogical lore-wise, could work gameplay-wise in the same way that I said before : common ingredients for the first stages of each potion, rare and/or unique ones as it grows more powerful, to encourage exploration and finding of these.
There would be one drawback less : once you made a powerful one you can try it and not fear to use it for an unworthy fight, as you could just reuse it afterward.
And it would add another drawback : you can use really powerful potion seemingly 'at will' and it might just break the game if it is too powerful.
All in all, it is a question of how the game is balanced which will make either system work.
That's unfortunately the oversight on devs part rather than anything you did or didn't do. If the game has not been designed to reward exploration for various ingredients, you won't ever feel the need to find anything, ever -- by design (or lack thereof). I'm probably going to be booed here for saying so, but W1 didn't really encourage any exploration at all in this respect. In fact, I'd say that it was one of the dullest aspects of the game, really great for completionists or OCD looters, but not tied so much to in-game events, plots or exploration (arguably, W2 did a slightly better job here, despite dumbing down alchemy system completely). If W3 tries to amend anything, I'd love for it to go for more hand-placed ingredients, placed in the world in meaningful places, sometimes providing a hint of sorts, sometimes giving players an incentive to venture off a beaten path, etc. Make plants and herbs collection a part of optional activity that rewards explorers by tying it to a quest, to learning the herbalist's trade (remember that skill in W1?) by squeezing more from each little plant you find...
I wholeheartedly agree. But devs already proved an answer in the form of mutagenes (W3 mutagenes that is). The problem they introduced with that approach was creating a big and unnecessary split between regular and super potions. The mutagenic ones would last indefinitely until "switched off", which is already against the lore. The normal ones are vastly underpowered but non-toxic. By forcing that split on the player rather than letting it logically come out of a single, coherent system, devs already take a lot of experimentation out of the picture. I know there's other ways to make it better, here's what I think:
-Make all potions' effects last depending on the quality and rarity of ingredients. Don't make any distinction in the game engine, HUD or journal between "super potions" and regular ones. Let players find that out on their own. Let it be possible to WASTE great opportunities - what good is a choice if making the wrong one is all but impossible? And no "lasts forever until replaced" effect, that makes very little sense even with the control Witchers have over their metabolic rate.
-Make your clumsy witcher hands, calloused and scarred from years of swordfighting, fail often at such delicate and patient work: looting plants on the go will only yield few meaningful ingredients, but more if you invest time into it (or a skillpoint, like in W1). Perhaps it becomes easier the more plants you collect (learn by doing, much like TES:III/TES:IV). Or there're gloves like the ones in W2, except not available as easy. Avoiding warehousing ingredients shouldn't be done by removing ingredients from the world though, that's clearly the wrong route.
-Allow for actual experimentation like in W1, with fully unpredictable results. I'd love to be able to stumble upon Perfume again by accident, it's so fun. Let it become once again a game of its own that rewards patient thinkers, not button-mashers. Novigrad apothecary or not, basic potions should always be extremely easy to make on your own, satisfying the ones who play the game for cheap thrills. For others, more alchemically inclined, it would be nice to just throw something into a cauldron and see what comes out, maybe even apply the rubedo/albedo/nigredo approach again. Geralt has regained memory, but simply remembering recipes verbatim doesn't mean there's no room for improvement, especially with such an experienced witcher. Not everything has already been discovered by witchers and sorcerers of old, because why would it be -- their world is still growing, evolving, inventions are being made all the time...
The question is why making potions or finding normal ingredients for standard potions HAS to be a challenge...I don't think that it had to be a challenge by design. In most RPGs there is no challenge at all in the potion system, you just find them everywhere or can buy them in every shop...
The potion system in the witcher game is different to make it congruent to the books.
And while micromanagement can be a chore to some people is it part of the fun to others. There is no "golden solution" to make both groups happy (generations of RPG have failed in trying so). The best way to solve the problem is to offer different options, a traditional system based on micromanagement and a casual system based on uncomplicated restoring.
Imo such things like "powerful potions" are hard to balance and they don't really fit to the lore as well. Geralt has a certain limited range of potions he use in combat based on the situtaion and enemy he is going to face. All of them are quite toxic. I don't know if it's beneficial to implement a more complex potion system. It would just make the whole game harder to balance without any big benefit imo.
But you're missing the point. The core mechanic is exactly the same.I only speak about alchemy, I don't care about crafting, and neither have REDs said anything about either abundance or lack of twine on every corner. If you find fault with that in W1/W2, maybe a different topic would be better to discuss it. This is about alchemy only. No room for twine
It's twine and oil for crafting, and it's gathering incredibly common plants that grow every five meters for alchemy.
It's the same loot system at its core.
What I'm suggesting, instead (and I'm probably wasting my time doing it, since so close to the release it's probably all already set in stone) is that I would find far more immersive and rewarding to gather five rare plants/reagents that are well hidden and/or hard to get (i.e. dropped by an unique monster) instead of picking hunderds of flowers on the way, which have several design issues in gaming terms:
- they appeal far too much to obsessive-compulsive impulses like "I should pick whatever I cross because I could need it at some point"
- they can be farmed, and as all things that can be farmed and are useful, they can be perceived as actively encouraging to farm.
Beside, I personally think the whole argument about this system being "noob friendly" and "dumbing down" it's mostly garbage; typical overreacting. And I say this as someone who generally really, REALLY doesn't like "dumbed down" mechanics.
The whole (erroneous) premise of that argument is that a system where reagents may be something more rare and harder to get but that you need to gather just once (or at least not so often) would be * implicitly* "more easy" than a system where you hit a button to gather from plants every few steps.
Now, I may be biased because farming and grinding (and all game systems that force or even just encourage those) are two of my most hated things in gaming.
I have absolutely no problem with something being challenging to get. Hell, in fact I love it. ;y main complaint about the two previous chapters was precisely that they were way too easy regardless of the difficulty setting.
What I have a problem with, on the other hand, is when games endorse, encourage or even force trivial and repetitive activities. Repetition is never particularly fun or rewarding.
What's supposed to be particularly easier, anyway?
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While I actually agree with everything you said, I wasn't speaking about anything like that at all. Please just read it again... Try to understand. It's not about loot. It's about using plants and ingredients in the world in more ways than simply scattering them around. What i meant was an exact opposite of what you seem to infer from my point. I too HATE collecting plants spread "naturally" everywhere. There has to be a point. I showed how it can be done in a picture in the post you've first commented on. Try to respond to that instead of rehashing what has been said in this thread by many people; believe it or not, almost everyone here seems to agree with that basic sentiment
I honestly can't recall that this is the big argument here.
Posting for two reasons, firstly to bump this up as it looks like some people still may have feedback to add, and secondly to highlight that where an existing thread exists, please do not create a new one and ask for it to be stickied on the first page.
CDPR do read feedback. Whether or not they will act on it will, of course, eventually be their decision. A single thread where they can read EVERYTHING said, including the reasons WHY you want something changed is of much more value than multiple threads or polls with simple check-boxes.
Thank you for your attention.
CDPR do read feedback. Whether or not they will act on it will, of course, eventually be their decision. A single thread where they can read EVERYTHING said, including the reasons WHY you want something changed is of much more value than multiple threads or polls with simple check-boxes.
Thank you for your attention.
Just made an account for this thread
First i would just like to voice my disapproval of refilling potions, i feel that this takes away from the "reward factor" that comes with being properly prepared for any situation, and the idea of activating the potions on the fly doesn't seem right to me either, unless there are a lot of cutscenes before each major fight? would much rather have potions that lasts longer.
I for one would like to see the return of TW1 potion system, and as someone earlier stated toss inn the upgradable potions into the mix, also wouldn't mind drinking them fast like in TW1 (if you want to avoid people drinking potions in combat crank up the toxic level or make the creatures hit you for double damage), always found the meditation process very slow even tho it looked cool.
Anyways thats my 2 cents, keep up the good work CDPR.
First i would just like to voice my disapproval of refilling potions, i feel that this takes away from the "reward factor" that comes with being properly prepared for any situation, and the idea of activating the potions on the fly doesn't seem right to me either, unless there are a lot of cutscenes before each major fight? would much rather have potions that lasts longer.
I for one would like to see the return of TW1 potion system, and as someone earlier stated toss inn the upgradable potions into the mix, also wouldn't mind drinking them fast like in TW1 (if you want to avoid people drinking potions in combat crank up the toxic level or make the creatures hit you for double damage), always found the meditation process very slow even tho it looked cool.
Anyways thats my 2 cents, keep up the good work CDPR.
Crafting potions, and potion lore, is a huge part of the witcher experience. Auto-refill is just too ridiculous. I can understand maybe if you find a very unique rare magical vial that auto-refills 1 potion of choice as some kind of really rare item you can find, sure, but that's about as far as this mechanic should go.
Since we cannot have a new thread on auto-refilling, perhaps the OP @~Sn@ke~ would consider adding a yes or No poll asking wither one welcomes said auto-refilling potions or not. As a side suggestion, he could also consider adding in further questions regarding the alternatives to the proposed system.
EDIT: Thanks @~Sn@ke~ .
EDIT: Thanks @~Sn@ke~ .
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