The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[val.mitev]

You ask where is fun in buying potions ?

Well first and foremost you should be able to buy only basic potions from most sellers and some of the more advanced potions only from the most famous alchemists like Kalkstein from Witcher 1 is.The most advanced should still be eiher extremly expensive or hard to find merchant who would sell it.

They will be more expensive than gathering ingrediants but more easier.Also you could get discounts if you do some services to merchants.

And let me counter your question (to those who asked it) where is fun in buying potions : Where is fun in Geralt spitting in bottles and it transforming into any potion no matter how complex it is to make or how rare ingrediants are to be found ONLY because he made one of it 3 in game months ago??

Well, you seem to have missed the point.
As I said, I like creating the potions, there's the fun for me. I could buy of course, but rarely.

As for the merchants that sell them, ideas were mentioned just above, probably you haven't gotten to it yet.
That would be a nice compromise to have both parties happy.

 

[Scholdarr]

Is there a market for potions in TW world? I'm not versed in the lose, but I don't think so. Hence, you wouldn't exactly have potions on display for sale, rather you'd have a herbalist make them for you. You could make contacts with herbalists, so that you'd hand them the recipes for potions and they'd create them for you, taking care of ingredient procurement and production. You'd pay a fee for such a weekly contract. Suffice to show up at the herbalist's doorstep on the set day of the week to collect the lot and you'd be good to go.
This way, people who want to use potions, but can't be bothered with harvesting ingredients, could still use them without fear of being caught with their pants down when that tough encounter finally came. No need for auto-refilling potions, really.

That's the reason why I suggested a pharmacy in Novigrad which Geralt could mandate to brew potions for him after he delivered receipes to them. Perfect lore-friendly solution imo. I don't meant a "I sell you everything merchant" like in Skyrim, the fairytale "I don't give a shit about believability" game...

The incentive to brew potions on your own should be obvious: you spare money. The better the botion the higher the price you have to pay. That's the classical trade-off in RPGs. Even in classic RPGs like Baldur's Gate you could buy the best weapons in the first area but only for really high amounts of money. That was the incentive to go looking for them on your own in the gaming world. Convinience in an PRG should always come with a price imo....

 

[Pajkes]

Well, you seem to have missed the point.
As I said, I like creating the potions, there's the fun for me. I could buy of course, but rarely.

As for the merchants that sell them, ideas were mentioned just above, probably you haven't gotten to it yet.
That would be a nice compromise to have both parties happy.

Yeah well almost everything sounds better than system which compared to Skyrim's looks way too casual and that's as casual as it gets.Next step would be press x for Geralt to swag and kill everything on screen (well there would be few steps between these two but still).

 

[Scholdarr]

I think that many seem to miss the point that "living in a realistic and believable world" is a huge part of the fun in an RPG for many gamers. These gamers play an RPG not only for the combat or for exploring the world or for story progression, they play it for the whole, homogenic experience, for the immersion. Every RPG is in parts a "simulator" that makes your playing of a role more immersive and more meaningful. Everything that destroys this immersion should be avoided whereever possible. And auto-refill features definitely belong to this group of avoidable immersion-breaking mechanisms imo.

 

[Jupiter_on_Mars]

That's the reason why I suggested a pharmacy in Novigrad which Geralt could mandate to brew potions for him after he delivered receipes to them. Perfect lore-friendly solution imo. I don't meant a "I sell you everything merchant" like in Skyrim, the fairytale "I don't give a shit about believability" game...

The incentive to brew potions on your own should be obvious: you spare money. The better the botion the higher the price you have to pay. That's the classical trade-off in RPGs. Even in classic RPGs like Baldur's Gate you could buy the best weapons in the first area but only for really high amounts of money. That was the incentive to go looking for them on your own in the gaming world. Convinience in an PRG should always come with a price imo....

Fully agreed.
The contract idea is just to parallel CDProjekt's regular renewal of the player's potion stock without him having to brew them. I love, love your idea of a pharmacy in Novigard. Terrific idea..


Combining the cleverest bits from everyone who's contributed, i'd say by far the best solution is this:

1. Potions last several swigs. They can be consumed a number of times.

2. Players can have the pharmacy in Novigrad brew them low level and mid level potions at a price and provided players have the recipe. As some people have pointed out, we would need a reason to reconcile this with lore, as Witchers don't normally entrust others with their secret potions. My suggestion is that pharmacy in Novigard would be just a cover for some underground withers. This could be a neat plot line. Another suggestion from @LordCrash, straightforward and perhaps better, that Geralt would simply bond with and trust the Novigrad pharmaceutist.

3. Players can establish a contract with the pharmacy. At a discount, selected potions will be brewed for him on a weekly basis. Player shows up at their doorstep and he's good to go.

 

[propheet]

You are appealing to a false correlation here. Having to craft one kind ofpotion just once in NO way necessarily implies that there would be no reasons to explore.

As I said in the sentence following the one you cited, I am perfectly aware of a ton of other incentives to go explore. In NO way did I necessarily imply there would be no reasons to explore.

I would honestly prefer to hunt down half a dozen of unique, rare ingredients rather than picking up wood planks, twine and oil at every goddamn corner.

I only speak about alchemy, I don't care about crafting, and neither have REDs said anything about either abundance or lack of twine on every corner. If you find fault with that in W1/W2, maybe a different topic would be better to discuss it. This is about alchemy only. No room for twine

Here, I only mean plants and other in-world alchemical ingredients, akin to bryonia, celandine, green mold etc. to be collected, perhaps an odd mineral or two (in realistic places, like caves or mines); and what I mean are the many intriguing ways of using that in-game appearance to motivate and interest player. Take a look at one way of doing so:
http://i.imgur.com/Ip451.jpg
It's more about using that part of Witcher lore to enrich the explorable world. A forgotten alchemist's hut in small, far-removed places, that harken back to "Grandpa" from W1, or maybe Kalkstein's crazy experiments. A patch of wildly rare ingredients (like you said, and like Reds actually already promised regarding mutagen ingreds) that can only be found and looted when the moon is out (remember one of the mutagenic elixirs from W1?). That would also make actual alchemist's or witches' gardens make sense from exploration standpoint, as well. There's all sorts of fun things you can do with a plant system and actual in-world ingredient system, if it's in place.

 

[val.mitev]

I've been wondering, so the mutagens will be in effect till removed/replaced, thus they'll be adding a constant amount to the toxicity.
Now when you drink an elixir during a battle for example, let's say it lasts 5 minutes and adds X to toxicity, after the elixir wears off, will the toxicity be reduced by the X amount over Y time for example?
Having it reduce instantly would be not very cool, that way you'll have to pace yourself.

 

[blackgriffin]

i find it very funny how people jump on anyone who sugests potions can be bought from herbalists because only a witcher can use them, but find nothing wrong with a bookseller having a x formulas for witcher potions that only 5 people in the world(the witchers we know are still alive) might decide to buy

 

[Klavi]

Yeah well almost everything sounds better than system which compared to Skyrim's looks way too casual and that's as casual as it gets.Next step would be press x for Geralt to swag and kill everything on screen (well there would be few steps between these two but still).

Seriously? We know virtually nothing about how W3 will play, how much the refillable potions will make the game easier, and even how powerful they are.
You'll still need to find and /or buy the right books and, when you do, you'll have to actually explore the world if you want anything more than just the basic, crappy potions. Think of how hidden some of the herbs can be.
While I loved W1 alchemy system, the potions weren't that big of a problem. You couldn't just chug em whenever you can, but you had enough of them to use on all serious encounters, be it bosses, some unique enemies or just armies of drowners.

 

[Pajkes]

Seriously? We know virtually nothing about how W3 will play, how much the refillable potions will make the game easier, and even how powerful they are.
You'll still need to find and /or buy the right books and, when you do, you'll have to actually explore the world if you want anything more than just the basic, crappy potions. Think of how hidden some of the herbs can be.
While I loved W1 alchemy system, the potions weren't that big of a problem. You couldn't just chug em whenever you can, but you had enough of them to use on all serious encounters, be it bosses, some unique enemies or just armies of drowners.

Well we do know their current plans for alchemy and it was explained by devs in e3 thread and it basically means find herbs once and have infinite potions.And let's be honest if Witcher 1's alchemy system was not hard and satisfying for you (as it was for me) than this is Barbie: Potion adventure level of difficulty.

 

[Klavi]

Well we do know their current plans for alchemy and it was explained by devs in e3 thread and it basically means find herbs once and have infinite potions.And let's be honest if Witcher 1's alchemy system was not hard and satisfying for you (as it was for me) than this is Barbie: Potion adventure level of difficulty.

I know they explained it, but that's just one part of the game. You need to know the whole picture, like how easy it is to find these herbs, just how powerful the potions are, how many campfires are there, how big of a deal will toxicity be, etc. CDPR can definitely screw it up, but there are also plenty of different ways to make it work.

 

[Scholdarr]

I know they explained it, but that's just one part of the game. You need to know the whole picture, like how easy it is to find these herbs, just how powerful the potions are, how many campfires are there, how big of a deal will toxicity be, etc. CDPR can definitely screw it up, but there are also plenty of different ways to make it work.

There are no campfires in TW3...this is not Dark Souls.

And nothing you brought up could justify an auto-refill potion system imho.

 

[Klavi]

There are no campfires in TW3...this is not Dark Souls.

And nothing you brought up could justify an auto-refill potion system imho.

The griffon video clearly shows Geralt meditating at a campfire (or a bonfire, if you will), just like in W1, though. You can only change /refill the "equipped" potions there.

 

[Nucta.397]

Fed up with discussions.

BRING W1 ALCHEMY SYSTEM BACK!!!
:rebel:

(exception: no drinking potions mid-battle)

 

[StaGiors]

Well, I'd love some refining be done on TW1 system. Like more sidesubstances and so on. Also some balance on the positive and negative effects of the potions.
Who knows though, we might be in for a treat with the new system. Can't judge it if you haven't tried it.

 

[Totalimmortal]

Fully agreed.
The contract idea is just to parallel CDProjekt's regular renewal of the player's potion stock without him having to brew them. I love, love your idea of a pharmacy in Novigard. Terrific idea..

@Marcin Momot
Combining the cleverest bits from everyone who's contributed, i'd say by far the best solution is this:

1. Potions last several swigs. They can be consumed a number of times.
2. Players can have the pharmacy in Novigrad brew them low level and mid level potions at a price and provided players have the recipe.
3. Players can establish a contract with the pharmacy. At a discount, selected potions will be brewed for him on a weekly basis. Player shows up at their doorstep and he's good to go.

If the 1. would be the golden middle ground for the "potion problem" (I see no problem about the W1 alchemy system, WHY CDPR, WHY), I would roll with this.
The reasons why 2. and 3. options from LordCrash are unacceptable for me, is because I'm a lore/immersion fanatic, and I can't imagine Geralt trusting such an important thing in a witcher profession and life as creating witcher potions, to someone else than himself.
As I said in chat, the only way I could accept that is that CDPR explain it in a heavily lore-wised way, that those shops/contracts are a part of a secret witcher cult as you said in the chat, or something else (for example, those potion makers who Geralt contracts turned out to be Vesemir, Eskel, Lambert etc, and they have nothing better to do, then i would swallow that), otherwise, it would be the same as auto-refill potion for me, in immersion/canon way.

My 2 cents.

 

[Nucta.397]

There are no campfires in TW3...this is not Dark Souls.

And nothing you brought up could justify an auto-refill potion system imho.

Exactly!
How *** can an empty bottle be refilled?
It's not DS where they have have a lore for this, in Witcher series it doesn't work.

Why it's so complicated?
how you make some home-brew in real life?

1) Take some stuff (herbs, berries and so on)
2) Take some bottle
3) take some alcohol (the better quality - the better result)
4) Mix, add some additional substancies if needed
5) Wait for berries/herbs to ferment, stir in regular intervals if needed
Home vine is ready.

This is exactly W2 alchemy system!

 

[Scholdarr]

The griffon video clearly shows Geralt meditating at a campfire (or a bonfire, if you will), just like in W1, though. You can only change /refill the "equipped" potions there.

Well, if that is true it would be another "no-go" decision...but I think the campfire was just an ambient element in the meditation screen and not an acutal element of the gaming world (just like in TW2).

If the 1. would be the golden middle ground for the "potion problem" (I see no problem about the W1 alchemy system, WHY CDPR, WHY), I would roll with this.
The reasons why 2. and 3. options from LordCrash are unacceptable for me, is because I'm a lore/immersion fanatic, and I can't imagine Geralt trusting such an important thing in a witcher profession and life as creating witcher potions, to someone else than himself.
As I said in chat, the only way I could accept that is that CDPR explain it in a heavily lore-wised way, that those shops/contracts are a part of a secret witcher cult as you said in the chat, or something else, otherwise, it would be the same as auto-refill potion for me, in immersion/canon way.
My 2 cents.

Well, do you think he has crafted his swords himself? If he doesn't trust a pharmacy why should he trust a blacksmith? I mean the quality of his swords is even more important than the quality of his potions...

Of course it would be even better if Geralt had a personal (long-term) relationsship with the respective alchemist/pharmacist, someone who he trusts.

 

[GHOSTMD]

Well .... was mentioned pretty often now... TW1 Alchemy had no problem at all.
I brew my potions there and i used them ... some more some less whats wrong with this.

I don t get the point either what the problem was/is with the TW1 system. *shrugs*

Ok i already posted a solution for this didn t i

 

[Kinley]

The griffon video clearly shows Geralt meditating at a campfire (or a bonfire, if you will), just like in W1, though. You can only change /refill the "equipped" potions there.

Except that he can meditate anywhere at any time. Those campfires are just a visual touch.