What needs to happen to fix Monsters

[Philido]

might depend on the rank and the skill of the players you face. In Rank 0 it's nothing but SY, NG and ST. All three pretty much destroys MO as someone here said recently since they are all control and removal. SK is as usual on another level and still unbeatable. Honestly not much has changed. I don't use Sabbath however so my experience may be slightly different. I face MO/Sabbath occasionally and more often than not I can handle them with the little control I can muster from White Frost.

Really? I haven't beaten MO even a single time so far but don't have any problems at all with SK. I'm at rank 3 now, but have played a lot of casual already and I'm pretty sure I faced a lot of very good players there. Even with SY I somehow don't stand a chance against MO. I don't push and try to play the long round, have Freakshow which gets wrecked by Whisperess after shooting a couple of times and Drill gets immediately answered by Aguara/Dorregaray or Parasite. Then the opponent gets 40 points in two turns with this stupid Mammuna. Maybe I play these two cards too early, but Freakshow is sometimes even needed to win round one which means I only have Drill left.

 

[Guest 4375874]

Really? I haven't beaten MO even a single time so far but don't have any problems at all with SK. I'm at rank 3 now, but have played a lot of casual already and I'm pretty sure I faced a lot of very good players there. Even with SY I somehow don't stand a chance against MO. I don't push and try to play the long round, have Freakshow which gets wrecked by Whisperess after shooting a couple of times and Drill gets immediately answered by Aguara/Dorregaray or Parasite. Then the opponent gets 40 points in two turns with this stupid Mammuna. Maybe I play these two cards too early, but Freakshow is sometimes even needed to win round one which means I only have Drill left.

Isn't drill normally used the moment it's deployed? In the times I've encountered it, removing it makes no sense because it's already cleared my board. You should have enough coins by the time they get sabbath. Or perhaps not, I think Gerni and Self Eater generates too much points in a few turns. They need to be nerfed. Mamuna should be a deploy to prevent use with Caranthir but otherwise I think it's fairly ok by itself. You have to commit to a Relic deck for most of these cards to even work

 

[DC9V]

I got a question about Dudu. He's a Relict. However, he doesn't seem to trigger the Selfeater's base-boost. Is this a bug, or is deploy always performed before the unit is put on the board?

 

[InkognitoXI]

I got a question about Dudu. He's a Relict. However, he doesn't seem to trigger the Selfeater's base-boost. Is this a bug, or is deploy always performed before the unit is put on the board?

Dudu should transform before "playing" the card is completed, so when the trigger for being played is checked Deploy abilities are already fully resolved and Dudu might no longer be a Relict (Caranthir triggers Thrives due to the same mechanic).

 

[DC9V]

Dudu should transform before "playing" the card is completed, so when the trigger for being played is checked Deploy abilities are already fully resolved and Dudu might no longer be a Relict (Caranthir triggers Thrives due to the same mechanic).

Aight, thanks! I always thought playing a unit just means putting the card on the board.

 

[InkognitoXI]

Aight, thanks! I always thought playing a unit just means putting the card on the board.

You are welcome.
Unless I am mistaken once you select the position you want to place the unit on it hovers over the position until the Deploy ability is fully resolved, so that is also a way to keep this in mind.

 

[Slizzl]

We can say the same about NG and SY to be honest

Those have more variety. Relicts follow the exact same playstyle every game. Slam a bunch of cards and hope the opponent doesn't have enough removal to deal with the absurd amount of points. As a NR main this is extremely oppressive and tiresome. The only upside to this is that since it is the exact same match every time it is predictable.

 

[Guest 4375874]

Those have more variety. Relicts follow the exact same playstyle every game. Slam a bunch of cards and hope the opponent doesn't have enough removal to deal with the absurd amount of points. As a NR main this is extremely oppressive and tiresome. The only upside to this is that since it is the exact same match every time it is predictable.

I agree but it's rather unfortunate because this really is the only thing MO has that is competitive.

 

[Aris_Tarkus]

...and yet, I have been having much better success with a full on Wild Hunt deck than with the relicts. I guess it depends a lot on play style and who you're up against of course, and I am no where near pro rank yet. Probably why I see so much NG. MO relicsts and Syndicate.

 

[NoGG4Netdeckers]

Wild Hunt is very viable, it just requires more brain power than relicts to play successfully, it's my highest rated deck on pro rank.

As for fixing monsters, I would simply just remove the zeal on Mammuna, problem solved, simple as that. And while we're at it change Koschey arenaline from 4 to 3.

Also I'd like to see vampires get the love they deserve, as it is now they are pretty much extinct. After Wild Hunt buffs it seems like a no-brainer what to do. Add to Blood scent: Whenever you play a vampire unit boost it by 1 if there is an enemy unit with bleeding status on the battlefield. Probably won't be enough to compete with the meta but it would be a really good start.

Edit: I'd like to add I really like OP's idea on changing Caranthir, he seems to be a huge source of making broken things even more broken in decks where he clearly doesn't belong to begin with.

 

[Raiie]

By actually try to design an unique card game and not rip off solitaire and then call it an archetype.

 

[Guest 4375874]

...and yet, I have been having much better success with a full on Wild Hunt deck than with the relicts. I guess it depends a lot on play style and who you're up against of course, and I am no where near pro rank yet. Probably why I see so much NG. MO relicsts and Syndicate.

well yea, everyone is specifically teching against Relics now so no surprise there. But even then WH decks pale in comparison to the other factions. They weren't viable before the last patch so I'm not sure how they could possibly be viable now. That's not even a debate worth having at this point because WH has been at the bottom for some time now. The White frost buff helped but still lags behind along with THE WORST echo card.

A lot of newbies are going to pick up relics because they are easy to use so at higher ranks you will see them but once you come across more seasoned players they don't hold up that well. That said I can still acknowledge specific cards need to be nerfed, namely Gerni and Self eater. As many have suggested the Mamuna zeal fix is an easy one.

 

[yeahalright]

Isn't drill normally used the moment it's deployed? In the times I've encountered it, removing it makes no sense because it's already cleared my board. You should have enough coins by the time they get sabbath. Or perhaps not, I think Gerni and Self Eater generates too much points in a few turns. They need to be nerfed. Mamuna should be a deploy to prevent use with Caranthir but otherwise I think it's fairly ok by itself. You have to commit to a Relic deck for most of these cards to even work

Yes, he's obviously not playing the deck right if he's complaining about removal. SY should have no shortage of removal options themselves, so if one goes down another one can be played quickly. Witch Hunter Executioners are already more than enough to kill any card under 9 provisions. Slap down a bounty on a unit, then next turn kill it with an Executioner and make a ton of coins in the process. Then your opponent will be forced to choose: spend a valuable removal on a 3 point card (lol) or ignore it and get crushed. It's a lose-lose for any deck that tries to use engine-overload like monsters, because they don't have enough removal to keep up with SY threats, not even by a long shot.

I got back to pro rank today and played a few games, I noticed lots of Nilfgaard playing the mill/"Copy the golem on turn 3 decks," SK control... my original comment still stands:

1. Syndicate (Lined Pockets or Jackpot both OP, "The Scoundrel" is completely broken and is worth at least 13 provisions, not 10)
2. SK Reckless flurry Control (still easily beats monsters, lol, you'll be lucky to hit sabbath even one round)
3. Nilfguaard Ball decks with lots of poison/locks and Cahir

I forgot to add Tactical Decision hyper-thin to NG decks, both rank in at #3.

 

[Philido]

Yes, he's obviously not playing the deck right if he's complaining about removal. SY should have no shortage of removal options themselves, so if one goes down another one can be played quickly. Witch Hunter Executioners are already more than enough to kill any card under 9 provisions. Slap down a bounty on a unit, then next turn kill it with an Executioner and make a ton of coins in the process. Then your opponent will be forced to choose: spend a valuable removal on a 3 point card (lol) or ignore it and get crushed. It's a lose-lose for any deck that tries to use engine-overload like monsters, because they don't have enough removal to keep up with SY threats, not even by a long shot.

I got back to pro rank today and played a few games, I noticed lots of Nilfgaard playing the mill/"Copy the golem on turn 3 decks," SK control... my original comment still stands:



I forgot to add Tactical Decision hyper-thin to NG decks, both rank in at #3.

At some point I have to play Drill, then it gets locked, then MO players slam their ridiculous double Mammuna for 40 points. Not saying I'm the best SY player ever, but how is anyone supposed to keep up with pointslam like this?

 

[yeahalright]

Why would your drill come down before his engines? You aren't making much sense man. Share your deck and we can tell you what is wrong.

 

[Celadyl]

he literally said pointslam, thats the opposite of playing engines

 

[Philido]

Why would your drill come down before his engines? You aren't making much sense man. Share your deck and we can tell you what is wrong.

In what world is Mammuna an engine?

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

In what world is Mammuna an engine?

You don't kill Mammuna with Drill. You kill all the engines with Drill. All you need is a bounty on a high unit and you can easily slam around 30 points in 1 turn with Drill.
Mammuna doesn't seem so "broken" anymore, does it?

 

[Philido]

You don't kill Mammuna with Drill. You kill all the engines with Drill. All you need is a bounty on a high unit and you can easily slam around 30 points in 1 turn with Drill.
Mammuna doesn't seem so "broken" anymore, does it?

Yes she does, especially in a short round. We will NEVER see Ozzrel again with this card around. And to make things even better you can play her twice

 

[Guest 4375874]

he literally said pointslam, thats the opposite of playing engines

Gerni is an engine, as is self eater and apprentice. All the sabbath decks rely on engines.