Which character do you dislike most?

[Fins_FinsT]

but why would dex think he is going to be in a better situation against the "cia" by killing the last lead? If he helped V escape, at least he'd have some type of leverage with Arasaka. Hind sight says he survived as long as they didnt have V in custody.

Post automatically merged: Apr 9, 2021

I disagree, I think its likely that Takemura was specifically not supposed to be hunting V. Yorinobu wants takemura not to question Saburo's death, and focus instead on protecting the new head.

Hunting V doesn't help yorinobu's real goals, and yorinobu is specifically trying to get the relic into hands other than Arasaka (and possibly ressurect johnny). Having a nameless assassin no one ever finds is the thing most likely to achieve all of yorinobu's goals.

Once Yorinobu sees Takemura has found V, only then are great efforts made to deal with him, and Yorinobu's attacks are always focused on Takemura.

Because Dex hopes to escape Earth to some orbital station, where Arasaka would not be able to get him. He makes a call about single seat in a shuttle if V waits a bit instead of going to bathroom in Dex' room. He only needs few hours of time to get out of reach of Arasaka (orbital stations, as we know from certain texts in the game, are independant territories where local rulers reign supreme, controlling everything on board). He calculates that during those few hours, being together with V - a person who most likely was seen by witnesses in Konpeki at very least - much increases chances Arasaka would trace him before he leaves the planet. At least, i would in his shoes.

Takemura was _specifically_ _ordered_ by Yorinobu to find V. This:

See, Takemura says: "Arasaka-sama, i've found your father's killer". Takemura would never report the finding right away to Yorinobu, unless having direct order. As we learn in the game, Takemura himself despises Yorinobu for starting all the internal struggle in Arasaka. If Takemura would be acting all on his own, he'd at very least interrogate V 1st, before even considering to call Yorinobu about it.

And just few lines later, Takemura also says to Yorinobu there: "Yes. I expect to be there in one hour". Means, at this time, he takes orders from Yorinobu about where to move V. Note: in japanese, the word Takemura used - "hi!" - is only loosely "yes" in english. In actual japanese, this word is much more like "I understood and i obey!" sort of expression.

And yet in this same video, 5:30 mark, Takemura asks V if she knows any Ripperdoc, for medical attention. This means, at this point, Takemura is already stripped of all his Arasaka privileges. He's already betrayed by Yorinobu and being hunted by whole Arasaka. Otherwise, he'd just go and get "top notch medical care" - much like it happens to another high-rank bodyguard, Oda, after V defeats him.

Those are some, but far not all, of the deets based on which i base above version of Takemura's behaviour.

Post automatically merged: Apr 10, 2021

the document you are referring to, are notes on a relic that never succeeded. Not with dead. nor alive subjects.

So obviously the relic in V's situation did not behave the same way it did in previous tests.

You can't refer to a document that says relic always fails. as an explanation of how it succeeds.


Its unknown exactly why, or how, if V died, or if he lived, how much brain was Johnny or V at any given moment during the story.

"A relic"? Just "a" one? Hellman's conversation says otherwise. Hellman confirms it's Relic 2.0 in V's head, and much elaborates about it, if to follow all the blue lines and yellow "gimme more details" kind of lines.

And this shard - it doesn't just say "never succeeded". The text is quite a bit longer than that. And for good reason: namely, it tells much more detailed story than just "never succeeded". Which details are quite important to me. If not to you - it's OK, it's just a game, yep.

 

[OG_VELI]

Relic 2.0 works exactly and only on dead/dying people. Which is right there in the screenshot i posted above. It can't work on anybody alive even if they are on the verge of death. Says it right there - they tried that, multiple times. Doesn't work. The host must be dead for Relic 2.0 to initiate the process.

Oh, but it doesn't - "In cases where subjects underwent biological death, upon taking root the biochip showed promising signs of initial activity prior to lapsing." - that is clear proof to me that it doesn't work on dead people. The Relic 2.0 showed signs of some activity but ultimately stopped there and then, which means it couldn't even get to the resurrecting of the person's brain part.

Post automatically merged: Apr 10, 2021

And this shard - it doesn't just say "never succeeded". The text is quite a bit longer than that. And for good reason: namely, it tells much more detailed story than just "never succeeded". Which details are quite important to me. If not to you - it's OK, it's just a game, yep.

The Relic 2.0 failed in every trial. There is no succeeding here.

 

[Fins_FinsT]

Oh, but it doesn't - "In cases where subjects underwent biological death, upon taking root the biochip showed promising signs of initial activity prior to lapsing." - that is clear proof to me that it doesn't work on dead people. The Relic 2.0 showed signs of some activity but ultimately stopped there and then, which means it couldn't even get to the resurrecting of the person's brain part.

Post automatically merged: Apr 10, 2021

The Relic 2.0 failed in every trial. There is no succeeding here.

My theory about why it worked in V's case - is above. TL;DR version of it: unlike in Arasaka trials, V's brain death was practically instant process which was caused not by biological causes (dying), but by a massive electrical shock. Which wiped out electrical activity of the brain at once, so tissues did not have any time to deteriorate and become non-functional.

At very least, we can be quite sure Arasaka trials for Relic 2.0 did not include shooting subjects with a 9 mm gun in their head. This method of inflicting death to host body is not repeatable with same results, you know. Tiny difference in angle and/or shape of the bullet (deformed by gun's barrel during the shot - always happen) - will cause unpredictable differencies for each "try"...

And one more thing: if Relic 2.0 always fails, then how it is Hellman says it worked, after scanning V? The man created the thing. How Alt says in one of endings that V's body is not V's anymore, but Johnny's, for which reason even if Alt puts V's engram back into V's body - the body will _reject_ V's person and die? Ok, Hellman can lie (though why would he, given his situation) - but both Hellman and Alt? Hardly. Last but not least, Rogue recognises Johnny in Chippin In. "How he smirks, how he smokes, moves, talks" - how you'd explain THAT? =)

 

[OG_VELI]

And one more thing: if Relic 2.0 always fails, then how it is Hellman says it worked, after scanning V? The man created the thing.

He's surprised that it worked, more than anything else.

How Alt says in one of endings that V's body is not V's anymore, but Johnny's, for which reason even if Alt puts V's engram back into V's body - the body will _reject_ V's person and die?

Alt says that V's engram will be rejected by their immune system because the body now belongs to Johnny. But if the immune system can reject engrams, why the hell didn't Johnny's engram get rejected by V's immune system from the start?

Furthermore, Alt says that Soulkiller only extracts neural engrams, a neural network (memories and personality). So if Soulkiller only extracts what Alt described, how is the Relic reconfiguring DNA all of a sudden?

These are plot holes, which literally only happen in the endings. None of the DNA stuff is ever mentioned beforehand.

I'm not gonna go any further with this because it's way off-topic as it is, and, to be honest, I can't be bothered because this was talked about a hundred times over in the big endings thread.

Last but not least, Rogue recognises Johnny in Chippin In. "How he smirks, how he smokes, moves, talks" - how you'd explain THAT? =)

Because it's Johnny's personality taking over V's - simple.

With all that said, this has gone way off-topic, so I'm just gonna end any further discussion from my side here.

 

[koalahugs]

Definitely Kerry.
...
Also, has anyone else found that his voice weirdly doesn't match his physical appearance?
He looks like the usual gay guy, which is fine, but his voice sounds like a redneck trucker that smokes too many Marlboroughs.
I find it hard to put the voice together with the character.

No idea what the "usual gay guy" is, but it sounds like you have an expectation that gay men are supposed to sound a certain way based on a stereotype.

 

[Fins_FinsT]

View attachment 11208010
View attachment 11208013
He's surprised that it worked, more than anything else.


View attachment 11208016
Alt says that V's engram will be rejected by their immune system because the body now belongs to Johnny. But if the immune system can reject engrams, then why the hell didn't Johnny's engram get rejected by V's immune system from the start?

Furthermore, Alt says that Soulkiller only extracts neural engrams, a neural network (memories and personality). So if Soulkiller only extracts what Alt described, how is the Relic reconfiguring DNA all of a sudden?

These are plot holes, which literally only happening in the endings because none of the stuff about DNA is ever mentioned beforehand.

I'm not gonna go any further because it's way off-topic as it is, and, to be honest, I can't be bothered because they were talked about a hundred times over in the big endings thread.


Because it's Johnny's personality taking over V's - simple.

With all that said, this has gone way off-topic, so I'm just gonna end any further discussion from my side here.

Yep, Hellman much surpised it worked. However, the shard i posted above - itself assumes, in its very last paragraph, that breakthrough is possible. Means, Hellman still hoped to have it working, even despite all the trial failures, even before learning it worked for V.

Johnny's engram was not rejected by V's immune system from the start because, presumably, Relic 2.0 tech can only prevent it once. The only difference in those two situations - is that V's engram would be put on this same physical Relic 2.0 item, one which already supressed "someone else's immune system" once: when Johnny took over. This is pure guesswork on my part, but i see no better explanation possible. It may be the Relic's nanites construct implant-like tiny nodes in the body's immune system to supress immune response to "invading" engram, but is unable to re-configure nor remove them afterwards.

As Relic 2.0 whole program was meant to serve just one man - Saburo - we shouldn't be surpised it's "one use only", too.

"Personality" is in part defined by DNA. By _some_ DNA. Many genes in human body have nothing to do with personality: ones defining shape of one's nose, blood type, shape / type of bones, etc. But few - do code brain development, DNA-coded instincts (which somewhat differ from person to person), psyche type, etc. Kids at the age of 6 already demonstrate clear patterns of 4 different main psyche types, this can be tested with great precision. IQ is also in large part DNA-coded. Means, Soulkiller must extract a _subset_ of complete human genome - and in order to copy a person / engram into someone else's body, corresponding parts of DNA in corresponding cells of the body are to be replaced.

It wouldn't be "another person" otherwise.


"Because it's Johnny's personality taking over V's - simple": nope. The shard says in the trials, this "taking over" never started to happen as long as the host body is alive. It started only when host is dead. Failed to complete in the lab, yes - but still, started to happen. Obviously, this means that presense of someone else's persona in the host body's brain - is a massive obstacle. So, if Johnny's engram did not manage to overwrite V while V was dead after Dex' shot - then how can it do it later on, while V is alive? Exactly the opposite to its specification, you know.

So no. Johnny it is, he's just psycho thinking he's V most of the time. Probably over-compensation for being affected by all the hormones and stuff. It's prototype and experimental tech, after all. 1st working case, too. Some side effects much expected.

Post automatically merged: Apr 10, 2021

Another thing. Remember i said above how V is "just code" even before Alt uses soulkiller on V - and any person is?

Well, check this out!

 

[Hexipoo]

Johnny, Keanu Reeves is many things, but a charismatic anarchist psycho he is not.

The dude doesn't have a single psychotic bone in his body.

It's on the same level of jarring as Dinklebot in D1.

 

[I_AM_AWAKE]

I'm afraid it has to be the nuisance caller Regina.

I tried blocking her number but she uses burner phones. That and she perpetuates an exploitative gig economy. I demand employee rights for Vs everywhere.

 

[PoppyRunner]

the game really made me hate placide i wish we could have been homies or something but yeah nopeeeee

 

[RMDrunkenRat]

Aside from the characters that are designed to be repugnant, I have to say River gets my vote. The entire 'Following the River' quest made me so desperately uncomfortable - it felt like my female V lost all of her agency, and had to sit there quietly as he and his family pressured her into a relationship. It was even worse that she couldn't go 'I'm a lesbian with an output, m'dude' at any point, and had to recount encounters with men she'd had. The feeling clearly stuck with me, as I even got a bit leery of going down his quest chain as a male V, who is completely unaffected.

Honourable mention goes to Panam, who doesn't inspire hatred in me, but did make me roll my eyes and repeatedly chant something that rhymed with 'duck cough' every time she started having a tantrum. Which was a lot.

 

[wyzman001]

fingers the ripper doc...makes my skin crawl...but that was the point right?

 

[Bassdeff]

Whichever one is interrupting what I am doing with a call on the holo is the one I hate most .

 

[grill3]

Cybermerkel in her underground vault below the Arasaka Tower.

 

[NorseGraphics]

So what are your throughts about it? Sure wild idea eh.

1st, to be honest, i did not mean it "entirely serious". Obviously, the game screams at us in SO many points: "V is still alive!". So there's that. Even if logic dictates V's all gone the moment Dex makes the shot, - we can assume it was sorta bad writing for Relic specification in-game. So there's that.

2nd - much more interesting, to me, is "what if it's true - what if V's all dead once Johnny shows up"?

Well.

If it's "two personalities, one Johnny" in V's body, then:

- it's clear that remains of V's psyche were saved by either the relic itself, and/or V's brain: there are certain lines Johnny says which prove he's aware about V's past experiences. For example, if you skip Jackie's funeral, then Johnny at some point will comment how quickly V forgets about her "friends". How would he know Jackie was V's friend, though, given that V slots in the relic only after Jackie's dead and even more, Johnny's engram starts to "get in" only after Dex's shot, by which time V sees / hears nothing about Jackie (nor about anybody, being _dead_)? He'd have no idea, unless looking into V's memories. This is likely done not unlike the procedure which is being used to extract memories of one "Peter Pan" (River's quest line), who's in coma and presumably brain dead ("empty shell" and all, as per River's words);

- the whole "struggle" between Johnny-persona and V-persona in the head of a body with only one functioning person inside being Johnny - would be nothing short of Schizophrenia, so we're playing a madman. Means, "all bets off", you know? If we're crazy to begin with, then hey, what holds us from doing crazy stuff? We're insane anyhow!

- the END GAME choices come in entirely different light. If it's no living-V around, then what would make Johnny to agree to go with Alt beyond the black wall, for example? Only his sickness (of imagining two people in his - now - own head). Thus, whole new picture of estimating what would be "good" and "bad" ending - is emerging. And personally, the ending where Johnny gifts that old expensive guitar to some street kid and then drives away in a bus? Heck, the happiest ending ever, if it's "just Johnny" to begin with!

So you see, lotsa interesting implications. What are yours?

Problem is that Alt splits the two psyches from each other. So, if it was all Johnny, where does V comes from?

My view follows the premise, that V 'death' activated the chip, and this rebooted the brain, but didn't outright kill V in the process.

How is the engram overwriting the neural connections? This video explains what happens to Jefferson Peralez with neural plasticity etc. (the blue stuff).

 

[PepeSmug]

I didn't like River. The whole romance angle of his story veers too far into cringe territory for my taste.

Fingers is just an example of lazy writing. His archetype comes off as cliche and played-out. I'll leave it there.

I didn't dislike Delamain himself per se -- though the way his character was shoe-horned in as an ally of V was extremely clunky -- but the versions of him in the vehicle missions were beyond annoying. I think CDPR thought the whole Delamain quest would be a super clever way to insert a bunch of wink-wink cultural references. I just wanted it to be over so I'd stop getting his calls.

 

[Yllana_Ardais]

can I say Panam? Out of all the major characters anyway. I don't see how she is supposed to be a better leader than Saul. He's not exactly stellar, but she recklessly endangers her friends and family time after time, behaves like a total brat, is surprised when everything blows up in her face and gets shoved down my throat constantly. I also kinda think the Nomads as a whole take up too much space in the narrative. I would have rather explored different sides of Night City life proper. More Kerry and Peralez to get a closer look at the rich and powerful, a deeper dive into street life with the Mox (their story is more fleshed out in the artbooks than in the game), more adventures with the Afterlive crowd. The Nomads and Panam just get too much screen time compared to the rest in my opinion and this also doesn't make me like Panam any better.

 

[EMT-Fields]

Johnny Silverhand.

 

[darksharke]

I was sitting here playing and it occurred to me that there are few characters I just do not like.

At the moment I am just sick of listening to Ruth Djeng.

Ruth Djeng is The Kujira.

AGGHHH, yes, will no one rid us of this annoying woman? Not yet seen a mod which removes her drivel, when you are modding and uploading new files and logging in and out, having to listen to this godawful baloney about 'the whale' over and over again drives me nuts... I've gotten rid of 90% of the intro, now can someone PLEASE mod her out of the load sequence??

 

[DC9V]

Rachel, from the Sinnerman side quest.

 

[NorseGraphics]

AGGHHH, yes, will no one rid us of this annoying woman? Not yet seen a mod which removes her drivel, when you are modding and uploading new files and logging in and out, having to listen to this godawful baloney about 'the whale' over and over again drives me nuts... I've gotten rid of 90% of the intro, now can someone PLEASE mod her out of the load sequence??

It has become background-noise for me....