Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers)

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Absolutely agree with you
only stalker is the exception , its not sooo good in my opinion ^^

Didn't play Stalker, came to TW3 after Bloodborne, which has a better combat system, IMHO.

But I do love Witcher for the writing. Don't really care much about combat...

I'm an old schooler... in order to be the all time best CRPG TW3 should had a robust item system like Ultima (put corn on fire and you had popcorn, for example), a true pacifist path (Fallout 2), Fallout 1 freedom and a main story as good as Planescape: Torment, which is the best ever made, IMO.

But we should go back to topic :)

:pride2:

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CDPR writes in the art book that Triss is a secondary character, but they are actually afraid of executing that, instead opting for not pissing off her fans too much.

My opinion on Gibner statement was object of controversy before, so I will refrain to repost it.

Red probably pigeonholed itself with Triss, after two games. In my very own opinion it was a HUGE mistake to let Yennefer out of TW2. Introducing her on the second game would make their life easier and give them room to explore romance options... they could add Shani as a TW3 main romance and even work on a better "Geralt alone", refusing to get involved romantically with them... and spending more time on brothel fun :)

(As usual, forgive my english, not my main language).
 
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That answer is a pure BS anyway. Triss having no moments with Ciri (why should she? they have no relationship) is not an explanation for why Yen has no moments with her, because the two are certainly not an equal footing when it comes to Ciri. One is like a mother to her, the other is like... I don't even know, Ciri does not think of Triss once aften her diarrhea episode in BoE.

Yen has no scenes with Ciri because it would make Triss look bad. There is no confrontation between Yen and Triss for the very same reason - Yen would come out of that as a 100% moral victor every single time.

CDPR writes in the art book that Triss is a secondary character, but they are actually afraid of executing that, instead opting for not pissing off her fans too much.

The answer from the Dev is not BS. Maybe you don't like it , but that's it.

Also, the part in bold is only your opinion because nothing in the game makes me think of that, nor any Dev ever confirmed that. ;)

All we have is that reply, all the rest are only, legitimate, personal opinions.
 
The answer from the Dev is not BS. Maybe you don't like it , but that's it.

Also, the part in bold is only your opinion because nothing in the game makes me think of that, nor any Dev ever confirmed that. ;)

All we have is that reply, all the rest are only, legitimate, personal opinions.

The part of the statement I refered to is logically incoherent, so yes, it is BS.
 
Well, that depends on what you consider a proper female topic?
Cerys was done pretty well, and you get to know a lot about her if you choose to help her. Yen's romance quest was done really well, and so did Triss one. Philippa had a much more prominent role in Witcher 2, but she was OK in 3. I thought Cantarella was pretty interesting and unexpected bonus. Lodge was a disappointment, mostly due to no screen time. Baron's wife, Anna, was a great character.
Indeed it does.

But I don't consider "screen time" a female topic. Just because a game features a lot of female characters doesn't mean that it also features female topics. Like I said, imo the whole issue of motherhood is (naturally) an exclusively female topic that is hardly ever featured in any video game at all. Same is true for basically all forms of female sexuality. It's always a male-centric (and often also pretty immature) view on such topics, if at all.

Edit: I forgot to mention Keira, she was a rather beautifully portrayed window into a soul of lonely, scared and desperate female, and we've been given an opportunity to help her on multiple levels. I really liked that. Helping her felt like being nice to women in general.
On which levels do we help her? Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see it. Keira is basically among the best female characters in the game (better than Ciri!), but maybe I missed something here.

I guess we wouldn't be having this conversation if they did Ciri's character closer to the books, and Ciri and Yen relationship. Sadly no side character can make up for it.
Indeed. But I would go further than that. We wouldn't hae this conversation if they didn't cut the whole motherhood topic from the game. And I don't only talk about Yennefer but also about Ciri. Giving life is the opposite of dying. It's the forever way of life and death. And from a mythological point of view, it's the motherly part that is responsible for giving life. In all natural religions and cults the female is worshipped as symbol of life and rebirth. Motherhood and the sphere of females is a basic and fundamental topic of every major human myth. It's a central topic of the human development and progress of the individual, getting to terms with the matters of life and death and getting to terms with your parents and later your kids. A story that almost completely neglects the sphere of motherhood neglects the chance to give new life. It's basically a story just about death and decay, about killing and being killed. Sapkowski's novels didn't work like that at all. Motherhood and all the symbols of feminism (in the traditional sense of the word) play a major role in his work. Without that the famous "Something ends, something begins" doesn't work, at least not to its full extend. What the games completely fail to see is the deeper mythological sense and structure of the Witcher world in the novels. Ciri's journey isn't just to overcome obstacles and to flee her enemies and finally get free of them. It's as well a journey about her role as female in this world and whether she 's ready to renew the circle of life. In that, she's inseperably connected with Yennefer who has the very same topic on a different level. If you read between the lines pretty every major topic in the Witcher novels is about questions of motherhood, fatherhood, the ability to create new life and the question of how you progress as a human being in the circle of life. It's not just about "death and politics". Witcher is NOT grimdark. Not at all.

The big tragedy in the TW3 is that it fails to see what the Witcher novels and Ciri's and Yen's (and even Geralt's) characters were all about. The end is the best proof for it. Ending the White Frost is an extremely superficial achievement that has no symbolism at all in the circle of life. If we think about the way the White Frost was described in the books, it' was a prophecy of a time in which people will suffer (symbol for getting old and sick), die (symbol of death) before the whole world and humanity will rise again (symbol of rebirth and life). By basically "beating the White Frost" Ciri just cuts the whole thing short but she refuses the world to get reborn again, in both a literal and symbolic way. And Ciri's still "dead". She "failed" (again, seen as symbolism) in her role as female since she basically acted like a traditional male hero. It's kind of weird that we tend to see females who act very much like males as greatest heroes. Best example is probably Jean D'Arc, a female who took the role of the warrior and died at the stake without ever being mother and giving life before. She's just a "male in a female body", so to say. We live in a completely male-centric world. Every major mono-theistic religion is completely male-focused, especially in Europa, North America and the Middle East. And it shows. Compare that to the way for example South America performs Christianity or whole natural tribes perform their primal rituals and religions. It has a much bigger focus on the female sphere. In South America, Maria, the mother, is basically just as important as Jesus himself. In primal religions it's the mother and the motherly god who has the secret of life and therefore the biggest power. In the big mono-theistic religions sex and human reproduction is seen as a "dirty" thing, especially if it's done by females out of the reach of male control. It's basically the attempt to eradicate the power of the female scene. So the western culture is much more "death driven" than "life driven", trying to establish the cold, lifeless dominance of the male sphere, at least during several centuries in the middle ages. The female power was driven to the private sphere. And that basically still shows in our own modern western mindsets todays. It's the basis of our cultural and societal understanding and the only time that this mindset is broken up is in myths and legends of old. Sapkowski re-created them faithfully, re-established the old circle of life with the mother and the female being at its center. "Something begins, something ends" is the formula of life and death and one cannot work without the other. Life cannot work without sexuality, without the thematization of motherhood and the female sphere. Sapkowski knew that. It's amazing how much of the old mythological structure is resembled in his novels. It follows the ancient mythological archetypes in almost every possible way, transcending the process of life from birth to death to rebirth and all the stages of the mythological hero. I guarantee you, with deep knowlege of mythology and the tradiitional hero's journey you'll read the Witcher novels with a completely new understanding.

To cut it short though, I'm just disappointed how "profane" the narrative in TW3 is in comparison. It has basically no symbolism at all and all sexuality and the whole sphere of giving life and motherhood is completely absent in the game. It's not only that the relationship between Ciri and Yen isn't shown "properly" or that Ciri doesn't call her "mother" at least once. It's about the whole lack of all these topics for every major female character in the game. All they care about is basically the same as everybody else cares: overcoming enemies and kill stuff. Getting power and control and becoming the master of death. It even shows in the way sexuality is featured in the game: basically just the act of doing it itself, but not for giving life, but only for fun and without any deeper meaning behind it or any ambigious feelings and emotions involved (sleeping with Geralt was always both sad and joyful for Yen, just as an example). I don't know about you but I AM diasappointed about that because it fails to recreate a huge deal of what the Witcher saga was all about from the beginning, especially about everything related to Ciri and Yen.


Edit: This is also the reason why I think that TW3 cannot be "saved". It's very narrative concept is deeply flawed. It's basically "just another" male power fantasy that happens to feature characters that look like female beings. It's a great male power fantasy, sure, but it's not more than that. It's not what I hoped CDPR would be capable of and it's definitely not what the literary basic offers in terms of narrative topics and storytelling depth. So don't crucify me, I don't think "low" of CDPR, especially not compared to most other video game companies, but I do think that they failed to either fully understand the Witcher novels or that they willinly decided to turn them into a "profane" male power fantasy which they were never meant to be in the first place...


Sorry for the long post, but I didn't know how to make it shorter... ;)

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That's the thing. It's kinda hard to translate it "literally". I suppose "homely child" could do the trick, that would mean simple or common, lacking elegance and/or refinement. More in a frisky way rather than malicious. Ugly one sounds
too derisive and doesn't fit the purpose at all imo.

Yen's "reasoning" behind that nickname was awaking the "hunger for improvement" in Ciri, which is crucial
in magic training. Ugly one doesn't do the job tbh.
Thank you very much for the explanation. So I was wrong and I interpreted too much into the German translation. I always thought there was a deeper meaning behind that nickname, beyond Yen's "envy". But I agree that the English translation isn't really fitting either...
 
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The big tragedy in the TW3 is that it fails to see what the Witcher novels and Ciri's and Yen's (and even Geralt's) characters were all about. The end is the best proof for it. Ending the White Frost is an extremely superficial achievement that has no symbolism at all in the circle of life. If we think about the way the White Frost was described in the books, it' was a prophecy of a time in which people will suffer (symbol for getting old and sick), die (symbol of death) before the whole world and humanity will rise again (symbol of rebirth and life). By basically "beating the White Frost" Ciri just cuts the whole thing short but she refuses the world to get reborn again, in both a literal and symbolic way. And Ciri's still "dead". She "failed" (again, seen as symbolism) in her role as female since she basically acted like a traditional male hero.

I think you nailed it here.

Judging how Geralt matters to her maybe she's trying to do what she thinks he would do.
 
That answer is a pure BS anyway. Triss having no moments with Ciri (why should she? they have no relationship) is not an explanation for why Yen has no moments with her, because the two are certainly not an equal footing when it comes to Ciri. One is like a mother to her, the other is like... I don't even know, Ciri does not think of Triss once aften her diarrhea episode in BoE.

Yen has no scenes with Ciri because it would make Triss look bad. There is no confrontation between Yen and Triss for the very same reason - Yen would come out of that as a 100% moral victor every single time.

CDPR writes in the art book that Triss is a secondary character, but they are actually afraid of executing that, instead opting for not pissing off her fans too much.

100% agreed with every word you said ;)
 
Official Witcher facebook just posted photos of Yen's cosplayer...there are some interesting comments there...

Love the cosplay and the outfit looks great, just to bad that Yen is an uppity stuck up manipulative.... well you know where I'm going with that. I couldn't throw her attitude back in her face fast enough during my whole adventure. Worst love interest EVER.

Not used to characters that don't wear their true feelings on the outside for readers and gamers to easily determine, like some sort of t-shirt with a kitschy meme on it? Her character has far more depth than almost any others in the whole IP. Just because she is independent and often combative, doesn't make her a *itch. If anything (in the game) she is one of the very few that give a sense of urgency and importance to rescuing Ciri, a girl she loves like a daughter. I could easily see moments where she was willing to do anything to find and save her. Just as I could see the subtle clues that some of the things she was doing were painful for her, but did them anyway. I'm sick of love interests in games being so sycophantic, cutesy, etc. etc. It made her feel like a true equal to Geralt, not just "his woman".

:)
 
Love the cosplay and the outfit looks great, just to bad that Yen is an uppity stuck up manipulative.... well you know where I'm going with that. I couldn't throw her attitude back in her face fast enough during my whole adventure. Worst love interest EVER.

Damn...is it just me or such comments are really getting old? I used to be annoyed by them but now I'm just like
 
The answer from the Dev is not BS. Maybe you don't like it , but that's it.

Also, the part in bold is only your opinion because nothing in the game makes me think of that, nor any Dev ever confirmed that. ;)

All we have is that reply, all the rest are only, legitimate, personal opinions.

You realise it's an answer from a dev who was not even involved in writing Yen's character?
 
You realise it's an answer from a dev who was not even involved in writing Yen's character?

And ??

We can never possibly address every concern the community has. We can't be everywhere. And when we do take the time out to write about something, it is being anayzed to death and ulterior motives are immediately assumed. In other words, if we don't post, it is seen as ignoring the community. If we do post, it is seen as taking favoritism and if we try to quell concerns about favoritism, we get told that it "feels" like we are still doing it. How am I to respond to that?

So to me, all of you want the dev come here and promise to add Ciri-Yen content. I had see all of your suggestion to the dev, so just leave it at that and let CDPR decide right ? Some of you ask why they promise to add more Triss's content ?

-They admit it don't go well with The Witcher 3 principle: choice and consequence. Not because some "fan" want MORE

-Ciri-Yennefer relationship is basically you ask for more content, so for now waiting is the best idea
 
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-They admit it don't go well with The Witcher 3 principle: choice and consequence. Not because some "fan" want MORE

In my opinion without the complaining of fans - there wouldn't be any Triss update.

I really don't know why do you see a problem with us wanting Ciri/Yen fix - there is no need for new content - just one Ciri's smile towards Yen (and not that pissed look) or one nice dialog would be enough for me and I guess for other fans too.

:)
 
So to me, all of you want the dev come here and promise to add Ciri-Yen content. I had see all of your suggestion to the dev, so just leave it at that and let CDPR decide right ? Some of you ask why they promise to add more Triss's content ?

-They admit it don't go well with The Witcher 3 principle: choice and consequence. Not because some "fan" want MORE

-Ciri-Yennefer relationship is basically you ask for more content, so for now waiting is the best idea

The game is finished, I don't expect any new content, I (and I'm sure there are others) just want an explanation as to why a prominent relationship in the books was written out in the games.
 
In my opinion without the complaining of fans - there wouldn't be any Triss update.

I really don't know why do you see a problem with us wanting Ciri/Yen fix - there is no need for new content - just one Ciri's smile towards Yen (and not that pissed look) or one nice dialog would be enough for me and I guess for other fans too.

:)

I don't have any problem about you want more. It just i see some people said the answer from GingerEffect is BS. Nice, he take his time answer to Yen fan question, and now some like to dismiss what he said and call "it isn't the answer we are looking for". GingerEffect already passed what in the topic to higher position, he do what he could so the best we can do is wait.

Now Wasaabii28 want to sort every suggestion and pass to the dev, it cool for me. But from what i read in his PDF it more like a rant, so need more professional sorting i must say

I don't even understand why this type of post call dev answer is BS get most of RED point from all of you.......

There likely wouldn't have even been a Triss romance at all either. I remember a huge thread and debate about even having her as a romance option years before the game came out. I'm not convinced they originally were even going to make it a choice.

And yeah it isn't a good move by CDPR, well but this is off-topic so i will write only one opinion
Triss is their own creation and they wanted to destroy it :whistle:
 
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Nice comment from a fan on tumblr

I was basically complaining yesterday because every single character in Witcher 3 is like, “YENNEFER. EWW. WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THAT BITCH????”
And I’m like “Dude? Seriously?”
This is pretty much how people respond to Yennefer in the books, because they don’t understand her, and they look at her as an “evil wicked witch” in black.
It’s the same way people think witchers are evil. It’s the same way Geralt is often treated like crap or with superstition, fear, and hatred.This is why he was drawn to her in the first place: she is someone to commiserate with.
Yennefer is just a female version of Geralt: misunderstood, magical, sarcastic, speaks her mind, and seemingly “cold” but with a warm heart – as evidenced by the fact that she loves Ciri more than her own life.
But people see a woman acting “out of her assigned gender role” and hate her. Because women are supposed to be meek and vacuous and cry and constantly need rescuing. It disgusts me.

Is Yen a female version of Geralt?
=
 
Now Wasaabii28 want to sort every suggestion and pass to the dev, it cool for me. But from what i read in his PDF it more like a rant, so need more professional sorting i must say

I don't even understand why this type of post call dev answer is BS get most of RED point from all of you.......

That PDF file is just the first version, a source from where you can pick sentences. I asked for help so that we could all write something together, nobody reacted. Even if you picked 10 sentences, even if you changed their meaning more or less completely, at least that PDF file would have motivated you to ask for answers. It's nothing else than a couple of suggestions for a possible EE, where narrative flaws might be addressed. I didn't send anything to anybody and I'm not going to either. Sorry for my moment of weakness. Don't you see where it's coming from though? All we can do is wait, read the books and hope they care about this, like you said. 10.000 replies and 400.000 views into this thread and we have no confirmation nor denial from a responsible party that Ciri and Yennefer is even a thing they would be willing to look into and consider even the slightest changes in the future. We have no idea at all how they feel about the current state of that content. They might be satisfied with it, because they have their reasons. We don't know that and I think
if they felt like this content needed their attention or if they wanted to make some changes, we would all know by now, from developers responsible for that content personally, in this thread. That's where the frustration kicks in. Stay strong.
 
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