Dragon Age: Inquisition

[CostinRaz]

Mass Effect had huge story issues with Cerberus in ME3 along with other nonsensical shit. No the ending was not the only problem.

Mind you I love Mass Effect 2 and I like 3 more then 1 but doesn't mean I ignored the issues in both of them. To me the ending wasn't really a big problem, though yes an epic ending like ME2 had would have been a lot better then trudging through bleak earth for over two fucking hours.

 

[Unkindled]

Mass Effect had huge story issues with Cerberus in ME3 along with other nonsensical shit. No the ending was not the only problem.

Mind you I love Mass Effect 2 and I like 3 more then 1 but doesn't mean I ignored the issues in both of them. To me the ending wasn't really a big problem, though yes an epic ending like ME2 had would have been a lot better then trudging through bleak earth for over two fucking hours.

I'm not ignoring anything. What issues with Cerberus? That they went full on evil? Answer, Indoctrination.

Mind you, Veleda hasn't played ME3, so whatever reasoning you're coming up with isn't why she said what she did.

edit: Also, really? The earth that was gangbanged by almost the entire reaper armada right from the beginning before they spread to the rest of the galaxy? What did you expect?

And even on Insanity, that mission didn't take 2 hours.

 

[Blothulfur]

Bioware's writing has always been an incoherent mess, no news there, whether it's ME and idiot Shepard fighting against the equally idiotic Reapers (when not having a party on the Citadel as Earths population is harvested) or Dragon Age and it's renaissance fayre approach to a medieval world, where the mages struggle for freedom in a feudal monarchy. In my eye focusing on their crappy worlds or writing is the wrong aspect, they should stick to squeeing with the idiotic slaves who follow the protagonist around and the dating sim aspects, that's what their audience wants.

Always thought it was funny that the Reapers claim to purge all life in the galaxy every fifty millenia, yet their relay system covers only one percent of the Milky Way, if that. So basically their cause is utterly pointless, they just harvest the life that happens to develop in their very small portion of space, which as we all know is very, very big.

 

[Blooddrunk]

I can name several stuff why i dislike ME3 without even mentioning endings:

- removal of middle option in the dialogue wheel and barely having any control over Shepard's dialogue
- ME2 crew completely ditched and half-assed (Citadel DLC doesn't count)
- important decisions like Rachni Queen and Collectors Base having no impact on the story
- Illusive Man going from the smartest man in the series to a total "dodo brain" and Cerberus becoming the new Empire (you spend more time killing Cerberus than Reaper forces which is hillarious)
- dissapointing final battle compared to Suicide Mission where you actualy had choices on how well will your crew perform
- no final boss, Harbinger would be a perfect choice but he got half-assed as well
- multiplayer, it's fun for about 3-5 matches but then it gets boring
- Tali's face and Ashley turned into Kardashian role model

I could go on but il stop.

 

[Unkindled]

See, you can go on all you want and it wouldn't mean a thing, because those are things you don't like.

Not things that are problems with the story. There's a difference. There's PLENTY of things I don't like about the story, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. Hell I'm the one that made that kardashian joke earlier in the first place.

Bioware's writing has always been an incoherent mess, no news there, whether it's ME and idiot Shepard fighting against the equally idiotic Reapers (when not having a party on the Citadel as Earths population is harvested) or Dragon Age and it's renaissance fayre approach to a medieval world, where the mages struggle for freedom in a feudal monarchy. In my eye focusing on their crappy worlds or writing is the wrong aspect, they should stick to squeeing with the idiotic slaves who follow the protagonist around and the dating sim aspects, that's what their audience wants.

Always thought it was funny that the Reapers claim to purge all life in the galaxy every fifty millenia, yet their relay system covers only one percent of the Milky Way, if that. So basically their cause is utterly pointless, they just harvest the life that happens to develop in their very small portion of space, which as we all know is very, very big.

They don't die of old age, and they can take as long as they need to fly from the relays. Besides the fact that they mention they do this to all intelligent life at a certain level of technological advancement of which they carefully monitor and spy on, we fly far from relays all the time enough to visit many planets and very easily. A reaper would have no issues getting to who they needed, given that they're after those capable of space flight. Any life forms away from a relay is unlikely to be at that level, given that we only were because of reaper tech left behind.

 

[Blothulfur]

Sorry Unkindled but space is very big, doing this for all of the billions of stars in the Milky Way they wouldn't have time to go and sit in between galaxies for fifty millenia, they'd need millions of years every cycle, shit nonsensical Bioware writing as usual.

 

[Unkindled]

Sorry Unkindled but space is very big, doing this for all of the billions of stars in the Milky Way they wouldn't have time to go and sit in between galaxies for fifty millenia, they'd need millions of years every cycle, shit nonsensical Bioware writing as usual.

What does the size of space matter if they know that the only life worth harvesting will grow right where they want it to due to the technology they planted? They already harvested their creators who've existed for many many years, exploring the galaxy. Which would give them enough data to know that there's not going to be many lifeforms evolving to the point of space travel through the galaxy and creating AI.

They have far faster traveling speed, and they have the patience to sit and take as long as they need. They likely have drifters exploring the galaxy constantly just to monitor space in other places elsewhere just in case. You're forgetting the aspect of lack of need of food, FTL drive, and machine intellect, logic and patience.

And really, it's science fiction, dude. Some shit's gonna take suspension of disbelief. Ever see the Matrix? That thing was flawed from the very first movie just for the reasoning of machines needing humans to make batteries, when it would take far more energy just to set that up, when practically anything better would be more efficient to use. Like, a battery, lol.

Anyway, you can say what you like about Mass Effect. I'm not gonna change any minds. This started though because someone mentioned mass effect writers being in dragon age, and even though I like the story, I don't think that will really do them any favors. Nor would it really hurt them much. So.

 

[Blothulfur]

They only have one left behind Sovereign, and their retarded star child who for the sake of the Deus Ex Machina never does anything in the first two games, nah it's just shit incoherent writing. Biological life cannot be anticipated, we've found it in places where we theorised it cannot possibly exist, the Reapers cannot be sure of it not arising unless they start destroying suns. Never mind the nearby Andromeda galaxy or their central raison d'etre being utterly ridiculous.

Least I want from a game, no matter its genre is coherency and reaction to the players actions, if it doesn't do either of these then it's unfit for purpose as part of an interactive media, and of course i'll criticise it because all criticism is good.

 

[Unkindled]

They only have one left behind Sovereign, and their retarded star child who for the sake of the Deus Ex Machina never does anything in the first two games, nah it's just shit incoherent writing. Biological life cannot be anticipated, we've found it in places where we theorised it cannot possibly exist, the Reapers cannot be sure of it not arising unless they start destroying suns. Never mind the nearby Andromeda galaxy or their central raison d'etre being utterly ridiculous.

Least I want from a game, no matter its genre is coherency and reaction to the players actions, if it doesn't do either of these then it's unfit for purpose as part of an interactive media, and of course i'll criticise it because all criticism is good.

I'm not telling you not to criticize it first. Second, there's plenty of reaction to what you do.

As for what you said, I didn't mean full grown reapers, but reaper tech. Remember in Mass Effect 2, they left a beacon that gave off a frequency the closer they got. I forgot what it detected, but if they've left stuff like that behind, they could've easily left behind more elsewhere to give them info from darkspace.

As for life not being anticipated, we say that now because we haven't seen and studied life of multiple kinds from all over the galaxy. We can't tell what to expect from life, but given that technology relies more on what resources are available to you, and not only your brain capacity and capability, it really isn't that far fetched within the confines of science fiction, to assume that life won't evolve high enough within a certain time period to develop AI and space travel without the resources the reapers left them. And if they do, then the reapers will eventually find them, then know there's another civilization in need of harvesting.

So, again, no problem.

 

[Blothulfur]

Nope, they'll not find nor cover the billions of stars in the Milky Way in fifty millenia, sorry. Life cannot be anticipated, that's part of its glory, even superior AI's (and let's face it the Reapers are idiots as we can tell by their motivations) cannot scour every inch of every rock over billions of star systems in fifty millenia. The whole premise is just flawed bullshit meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator, shit writing as I said.

As for plot choices, no not really, if you kill somebody a replacement character appears and serves the same purpose. The fact that you have to side with Cerberus who you'd been happily slaughtering in the first game, that killed marines like you and Kohaku, when realy you'd have put two in Arsey and Borings skulls and took their shuttle, that's fucking stupid beyond belief. But then again from even before the forced death and space magic ressurection, the second game is crap.

Edit: Fun I must admit, which is my point, Bioware writing is shit so stick to what they do best squeeing and dating sims blatant power fantasies with wafer thin plots.

 

[Unkindled]

Okay, you say life cannot be anticipated, but resources can. You don't have to cover every inch of the galaxy to know that resources are the key limiting factor to developing tech. You can yell lalala can't be anticipated until the cows come home. Doesn't change that, nor does it change the idea that if someone did develop to that level, when they went exploring, reapers would find and destroy them.

AND, being in science Fiction, it doesn't matter if this would work in real life. In this world, the reapers calculations proved correct, and that is consistent through the story. You may not like it, but it's not the source of the issue. The source of the issue is the purpose of harvesting in the first place.

And things are effected if a character died previously, even if they are replaced. Tuchanka's fate for the best case scenario needs wrex and the female to live for one, and if you didn't save the data in me2, she always dies.

Plenty of reaction, dude.

edit: I never said the writing was fantastic, either. I'm only saying mass effect isn't at all riddled with problems in the story itself like people are saying, just because there's things they don't like. Mass Effect's issues don't compare to dragon age's.

And this isn't a book. Not many games can claim to have 'fantastic' writing. Only games I'd give that compliment to are Red Dead Redemption and the Walking Dead Season 1 and 2.

 

[Blothulfur]

No life cannot be anticipated, nor can the technological advancements specific to that alien lifeform, if it even needs technology. The only surefire method of inhibiting life would be the destruction of stars, and even then we cannot be sure that some form of life cannot evolve. The resiliency of life has kept on astounding scientists and probably will do as Voyager (just now leaving our solar system) astounded us about our own solar system, in foreign massively different environments, you can't imagine what life will develop.

Sure you can just accept the story and handwave away any consistency or sense, but I prefer basic coherency in my entertainment, that should be the minimum standard in a game. If it's not then i'm going to call the writing and setting bullshit.

As for choices in ME, they were all rendered pointless except for red, blue and green at the end. Nothing you did affected the Deus Ex Machina idiocy.

 

[Unkindled]

Okay, we're just going to have to agree to disagree then, since you're just repeating yourself at this point. I'm not handwaving away anything, you simply disagree with something that isn't scientific fact within a science fiction story. I think it makes sense for entities like the Reapers to be able to predict the technological advancement of life, given how long they've existed and how advanced they are, and you don't. Or at least, it's enough for me to buy the tale with suspension of disbelief. You can't watch or play a single science fiction game without some suspension of disbelief.

I already said the ending sucked, so your last statement, I already agreed on.

 

[Blothulfur]

The unanticipatable nature of life, even by idiot machines, is fairly much scientific fact and once again the vast nature of space means fifty thousand year cycles is utter bollocks when trying to scour billions of star systems and everything in between them. Feel free suspending your disbelief, but lack of basic coherency is to me damning for any writer worth their salt. But as I said the second game was fun, and if you enjoyed it then fair enough, not my place to judge you or dictate what you can play or enjoy.

But i'm not going to say the setting and writing aren't illogical shit when they are.

 

[Unkindled]

The unanticipatable nature of life, even by idiot machines, is fairly much scientific fact and once again the vast nature of space means fifty thousand year cycles is utter bollocks when trying to scour billions of star systems and everything in between them. Feel free suspending your disbelief, but lack of basic coherency is to me damning for any writer worth their salt. But as I said the second game was fun, and if you enjoyed it then fair enough, not my place to judge you or dictate what you can play or enjoy.

But i'm not going to say the setting and writing aren't illogical shit when they are.

See, they never said they only took 50,000 years to scour the stars AGAIN. Thats how long they give the life they are watching to go undisturbed. NO ONE is saying that's how long the destruction takes, and they don't even go throughout every last inch of the galaxy, dude. Even if they did, 50,000 years is not the length they say it would take! You don't even get the story setup you're crapping on.

Second, things are only random until one discovers a pattern:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rIy0xY99a0

How do you enjoy star wars, man. Because that has plenty of issues too. All science fiction does.

 

[CostinRaz]

How do you enjoy star wars, man. Because that has plenty of issues too. All science fiction does.

That's a weak excuse, just because other stories have issues don't excuse those exist in Bioware games, and how exactly is a story going to get better if it is not criticized heavily?

You may not give a damn about Cerberus becoming drones for the Reapers, but it's dumb and as Bloth pointed out the resurrection of Shepard is also very dumb. Now I don't really care about lazarus either way but I recognize how fucking stupid the whole thing is.

 

[Blothulfur]

Star Wars is childish shit, always has been and always will be. The fifty thousand year cycle keeps coming up throughout the games shit writing, if they didn't want to make a shit incoherent setting then they should have changed it to the millions of years scouring all the stars in the Milky Way would take, but then that would invalidate their basic premise. Along with all of the other blatant plotholes handwaved away.

Random chaos is the actions, reactions and attachments formed by sub atomic particles, the basic building blocks of life. The idiot machines cannot tell what, where or how some alien form of life that has never existed before will come to evolve into sentient, sapient life. That task would take even more millions of years, and they couldn't tell whether it would evolve into a fern or a man from that level. Chaos on that level cannot be anticipated, as the video you linked tells you.

Naw it's just shit writing, personally I like basic coherency.

 

[Veleda.980]

Well, for me it feels mostly like a comic book. Meaning huge swords, huge structures, huge horns, hectic combat and abilities, colorful spells, absurd armors and weapons, improbable dresses, improbable architecture, and on top of all the aesthetic factor, cheesy one-liners, confused dialogues, gimmicky situations and "big ancient evil guy who wants to destroy the world" plot. The artworks shown in the EGX presentation look very pretty, but something must have gone wrong in the transition.

That's all judging by the trailers, though. I can't deny there are some aspects of the game that look cool, but... I don't know. I'd rather wait.

Oh yeah, I forgot brainless characters, but that's too early to say. It's more of a first-impression feel.

I agree and well said, you put my feelings about the game into perspective. That said, I think we're going to buy it unless initial reviews/ player impressions are bad. There's just not enough out right now to play.

I don't agree at all, their epic moments were exactly that, and I really saw no problems with the story. The only, ONLY problem with mass effect was the ending, story wise. Mass Effect was a fantastic game series.

The problems I personally had involved the characters and what they occasionally did to them. Appearance wise, or personality wise, with Jacob.

edit: If you want to pinpoint a problem, their problem was that the Reapers were too badass. Everyone knew whatever defeated them would be wonky. And it was exactly that. Their continuation from series to series worked perfectly fine. I've made many playthroughs across all three, never had a problem at all. Even small details you might've forgotten carry over.

There was really no story continuity from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. BTW I haven't played ME3, but read up on the story quite a bit, so it's not like I'm talking blind. They introduced all kinds of red herrings that never got developed, like dark energy, and characters went off on odd trajectories or disappeared altogether like Harbinger. And the ending... well, they didn't just flub an ending, they bombed the whole series with that ludicrous rationale spouted by the star child.

I'm not saying you can't still enjoy the games. You pretty much have to turn your mind off, though. I just said Bioware's writing is overrated. It's not the worst writing in games, of course, but that's a low bar.

 

[Seboist]

Mass Effect is an inconsistent mess, let's just take a look at the reapers portrayal in each game shall we?

ME1: Machine gods with contempt for organic life who they view as being mere accidents.

ME2: Now they're cybernetic space ships who harvest species who are the best racial stock in the galaxy at the time for "preservation"(how turning them into slurpee does that is beyond me).

ME3: They're still cyborg ships in this but now they preserve all life and it turns out, they kill organic life to prevent them from being killed by machines.

This only scratches the surface of the inconsistencies, there's also Cerberus and the Geth who are equally as much of an inconsistent mess as the Reapers, not to mention all sorts of other minor or major inconsistencies elsewhere.

 

[Blothulfur]

Anyway i'm off to train then knock froth off a few, afternoon all.

Quality Bioware writing?