I agree with this. I hate the health regen system where you can just take cover and you're suddenly fine. I'd like there to be no regen at all except if you have the cyberware.
I agree with both for the same reason, having to think your way through things. Yeah, it can be frustrating to have to restart something but to keep it in line with the spirit of Cyberpunk, having to visit a ripper doc or a portomedic is par for the course. That should be factored in to gameplay by the player. Stimpacks that heal a little or work with upgrades and augs would be really a great way to personalize your character.
Well, luck is a fairly decent way to give players a way to avoiding needing to create a new character after a single bad die roll.
I played a "James Bond" RPG once that took it to appropriate Bond-esk extremes, there was a game mechanic where you gained a hero point (or something like that) every time you got a crit success on anything and could use them to either void out a bad roll or trade a few in to be able to do something only Hollywood could dream up.
Fun game actually.
I played a "James Bond" RPG once that took it to appropriate Bond-esk extremes, there was a game mechanic where you gained a hero point (or something like that) every time you got a crit success on anything and could use them to either void out a bad roll or trade a few in to be able to do something only Hollywood could dream up.
Fun game actually.
Thaaat wasn't Top Secret: SI, was it?
Well, i just finished Wolfenstein New Order. Great game, horrible, horrible boss end fight on Uber. You basically die your way to success. The rest of the game was limited regen, ( to next stage: 20%, 40%, 60% etc) with health packs, and you could do alright if you were quick, accurate and suitably cowardly, but the boss fight was reaaaallly tedious.
Please no health pack/regen that would allow a fifteen minute (two hour with respawns) circle-strafe/chipping away/regen health/run to health pack mechanic.
This boss fight had most unsatisfactory end in history of video games.
Back on topic: I liked health system in DE:HR or in A:CM it's nice middle ground between consumables and regen. I would add just one twist: during the fight you can't fully regain your health, the upper limit is lets say... 75%. After the fight you will have to visit doc of some sort, to heal yourself completely.
could you explain this idea more detailed? Because it sounds interesting.....
Nope, Bond, Top Secret was a different RPG. Tried that too, but Bond was more fun since everyone knew the movies. Top Secret always felt a bit more like "Get Smart" to me.
This thread have 21 pages, so i hope you will forgive me that i haven't read it. I'll just post my own thoughts on this topic.
- Wolfenstein new order used very nice idea. You have autoregeneration... to max 10HP. Rest you should heal using stimpacks.
But traditional powerup pickup stimpacks are good for arcade'y games. In CP2077 stimpacks should be usable items, but not insta heal as it is lame
. I would go for something Techland did more than a decade ago in their FPS shooter called Chrome. Usable stimpacks giving incredibly fast regeneration for small amount of time. Heals to full HP in like 4-5 second even in combat for 10 seconds (well in Chrome it was healing you untill you reached full HP, but it leads to some issues). And you can use a couple of them at the same time giving you ridicolous regeneration. I remember using it in first level on Chrome, when i exited elevator at the rooftop and there was stationary machinegun there, 4 simultanously used healtexes (as they were called) allowed me to run to distant cover without dying 3 times on the way .
...for the other hand making healtex stop healing after reaching max health prevented from just using a couple of them and charging at enemies who couldn't deal enough damage to break through regeneration. If players overused it, he reached max HP and then became easy to kill again.
- Wolfenstein new order used very nice idea. You have autoregeneration... to max 10HP. Rest you should heal using stimpacks.
But traditional powerup pickup stimpacks are good for arcade'y games. In CP2077 stimpacks should be usable items, but not insta heal as it is lame
. I would go for something Techland did more than a decade ago in their FPS shooter called Chrome. Usable stimpacks giving incredibly fast regeneration for small amount of time. Heals to full HP in like 4-5 second even in combat for 10 seconds (well in Chrome it was healing you untill you reached full HP, but it leads to some issues). And you can use a couple of them at the same time giving you ridicolous regeneration. I remember using it in first level on Chrome, when i exited elevator at the rooftop and there was stationary machinegun there, 4 simultanously used healtexes (as they were called) allowed me to run to distant cover without dying 3 times on the way ....for the other hand making healtex stop healing after reaching max health prevented from just using a couple of them and charging at enemies who couldn't deal enough damage to break through regeneration. If players overused it, he reached max HP and then became easy to kill again.
Like the guy above me, I haven't read 21 pages because I'm lazy as fuck.
Anyway, on the first page it has been stated that regenerating health would make sense if you had certain implants. I think that's not far from what I think but since we don't know how exactly health(and those of certain bodyparts) will be handled, let me just say that I believe tht method should only apply to certain types of damage.
Like you take damage on your left arm. There's no bone broken, you only took damage. So an implant could reduce/blend out the pain, muh like adrenaline.
In game you'd get back health(health as always showing vitality of body and/or certain parts), while the overall damage remains and would've to be treated after things calmed down.
Also, regenerating health only up to a certain point is a great idea that has been stated before. Like you lose 50% of your health in one attack. Using an implant for regenerating(depending on how powerful that implant is) will regenerate a certain % of that damage. So let's say that the "CRP-x2" implant you use will regenerate your health up to 70% over time again.
IDK, something like that.
Anyway, on the first page it has been stated that regenerating health would make sense if you had certain implants. I think that's not far from what I think but since we don't know how exactly health(and those of certain bodyparts) will be handled, let me just say that I believe tht method should only apply to certain types of damage.
Like you take damage on your left arm. There's no bone broken, you only took damage. So an implant could reduce/blend out the pain, muh like adrenaline.
In game you'd get back health(health as always showing vitality of body and/or certain parts), while the overall damage remains and would've to be treated after things calmed down.
Also, regenerating health only up to a certain point is a great idea that has been stated before. Like you lose 50% of your health in one attack. Using an implant for regenerating(depending on how powerful that implant is) will regenerate a certain % of that damage. So let's say that the "CRP-x2" implant you use will regenerate your health up to 70% over time again.
IDK, something like that.
I think there is a way around no-regeneration-without-cyberware issue. Make it so that each level has its own advantages, the lower difficulty level you take, the more fancy regenerating tech your character owns from the start while those who take "Cyberpunk" level won't get any and will need to actually buy one for themselves. Since game is supposed to be heavily focused on single-player everyone could be able to play what one desires.
You could use bandages if you're only slightly damaged and such damage would heal up, slowly, over time. Permanent damage would require more serious work, like buying yourself a new arm, some professional doc, etc. Healing capabilities of a human body does indeed has limits. Armor would basically help you keeping yourself at low level of damage from where you can regenerate it. How long should soft-damage regeneration take? Again, I'd say it should depend on difficulty (lower means faster regeneration, higher slower, depending on how hardcore one wishes to be). Either that or the game has to force part of potential playerbase into something people wouldn't find good enough (either too easy or too hard).
You could use bandages if you're only slightly damaged and such damage would heal up, slowly, over time. Permanent damage would require more serious work, like buying yourself a new arm, some professional doc, etc. Healing capabilities of a human body does indeed has limits. Armor would basically help you keeping yourself at low level of damage from where you can regenerate it. How long should soft-damage regeneration take? Again, I'd say it should depend on difficulty (lower means faster regeneration, higher slower, depending on how hardcore one wishes to be). Either that or the game has to force part of potential playerbase into something people wouldn't find good enough (either too easy or too hard).
Let me ask this.
What is combat damage to the human body?
Broken/shattered bones.
Torn or outright destroyed muscles.
Shredded and nonfunctional blood vessels.
Destroyed nerves.
How the hell do you "regen" ANY of that over the course of a few seconds?
Even if we assume your circulatory system is full of nanites controlled by a micro-supercomputer that had the atomic structure of the individuals unique (no two people have EXACTLY the same body proportions) anatomy readily at hand where does it get the raw materials to reconstruct destroyed tissues and fibers with?
Even if we assume an astronomical 10,000x healing rate it takes 6-8 weeks (apx. 4,233,600 seconds) for a broken bone to set so it would take 433 seconds ... about 7 minutes.
What is combat damage to the human body?
Broken/shattered bones.
Torn or outright destroyed muscles.
Shredded and nonfunctional blood vessels.
Destroyed nerves.
How the hell do you "regen" ANY of that over the course of a few seconds?
Even if we assume your circulatory system is full of nanites controlled by a micro-supercomputer that had the atomic structure of the individuals unique (no two people have EXACTLY the same body proportions) anatomy readily at hand where does it get the raw materials to reconstruct destroyed tissues and fibers with?
Even if we assume an astronomical 10,000x healing rate it takes 6-8 weeks (apx. 4,233,600 seconds) for a broken bone to set so it would take 433 seconds ... about 7 minutes.
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I..guess. Ever had a bone bruise? Damn things hurt for-EVER. In Cyberpunk 2020, even a Light wound may take quite awhile to heal.
Exactly why I mentioned cyberware of specific quality being granted to players with lower difficulty settings than "Cyberpunk" and/or regeneration level depending on chosen difficulty level.
I do like simulation elements myself, but past certain point it's burdensome from gameplay perspective. A good discouragement for non-combat classes perhaps, but not so good for combat-oriented classes if they don't have the means to do better. I mean, what's the point of playing combat class if you don't want to get involved in combat because it's - and it should be, logically speaking - dangerous? I am not fluent in Cyberpunk 2020 (I know only what I've read from the topics) so maybe I am missing something, like light wounds on non-modified humans in Cyberpunk 2020 being serious by "our" world's standards... Or any fight ending with serious injuries for some reason.
I do like simulation elements myself, but past certain point it's burdensome from gameplay perspective. A good discouragement for non-combat classes perhaps, but not so good for combat-oriented classes if they don't have the means to do better. I mean, what's the point of playing combat class if you don't want to get involved in combat because it's - and it should be, logically speaking - dangerous? I am not fluent in Cyberpunk 2020 (I know only what I've read from the topics) so maybe I am missing something, like light wounds on non-modified humans in Cyberpunk 2020 being serious by "our" world's standards... Or any fight ending with serious injuries for some reason.
Hum.. I've been toying with the idea of a three way option where if you're not knocked on the head, you are incapacitated and go into critical mode where you are given the option of having cyberware self administrate blood clotting agents (to stabilize you), have a friend/npc start to operate on you, or call for a meat wagon heavy response team to come get your ass to safety. But all of that is highly dependent on AI.
However, now that you mention it, you could have healing be extremely slow but you have pumping drugs to temporary get over the pain or have a pain editor cyberware for a boost to get through missions.
Yup, assuming you don't lose a body part. All the pain relief in the world isn't going to allow you to use a hand that's been amputated.