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How is netrunning going to be handled, if at all?

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wisdom000

wisdom000

Forum veteran
#41
Feb 28, 2013
blank_redge said:
^^ Agreed with this; this was the concept of Cyberspace / the 'Net that I always envisioned in Cyberpunk literature / CP2020.

Again, if CDPR has the resources available to build out 'Netspace like this, I'm all for it, but I'll settle for a stripped-down wireframe of the city map.
Click to expand...
Presumably, with AV's present, the mechanic for flying will already be there, in the net you just apply it to the character... then you just point in a direction and go...

Also, in the net, fast travel really makes a whole lot of sense.... allow characters to "bookmark" locations, and just go there... Otherwise, your avatar should always start out in correlation to your meatspace location when entering the Net...
 
C

CaptainArgo

Senior user
#42
Mar 1, 2013
Chrome Rose said:
Netrunning should be as viable a path as playing a Solo.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "viable"?
Surely you don't mean to imply that the situations presented in the game should always be only, or most optimally, solvable with a gun? If you simply mean to say that Netrunner's shouldn't be as good at combat as a Solo then I agree, but we also have very different ideas of what "viable" means.
 
A

ad1066

Rookie
#43
Mar 1, 2013
gawdzila said:
What do you mean by "viable"?
Surely you don't mean to imply that the situations presented in the game should always be only, or most optimally, solvable with a gun? If you simply mean to say that Netrunner's shouldn't be as good at combat as a Solo then I agree, but we also have very different ideas of what "viable" means.
Click to expand...
I think what they meant is that traditionally in the PnP game, Netrunning ends up getting sidelined because it usually takes the other players out of the game. If the non-netrunning players are left sitting there doing nothing while the GM is going through a netrunning session with just one or two characters. My solution for this has always been twofold:

1. Simplify the mechanics of netrunning.
2. Intercut the netrunning with what the other players are doing.

A lot of that will not be relevant in the video game, since the mechanics can be as complicated as the devs want, the computer/console will handle all of that on the back end, and more to the point, if it's single-player, there's no one else hanging around waiting for you to hack the surveillance system or open the doors for them.

Also, the devs should present the player with obstacles that can be overcome not only with direct force, but clever use of the environment, including hacking automated defense systems to gain control over them, and the like.

-- Ben
 
D

deathntaxes

Rookie
#44
Mar 1, 2013
I personally think Netrunning should involve a Scaling world Architecture.

1. You have the grid level this is where you see the entire Telecommunications Grid of Night city here you fly faster than light - think Galaxy style visualization. There is teeming constant traffic and other icons spinning around and through the GRID. You choose the node area you want to move to and ZOOOOM.

2. You fly there. At this level the rest of the grid is distant motes like stars int the sky, but in the node you get the higher resolution level of the working computer systems and data fortreesses and icon activity. Here you get to see the data fortress and information stores etc. This is where you start to run into security software, data walls, traps, and ICE. Hacking, masking, search programs, sprites, sleaze, distraction, and subtle to non-subtle attack programs. This is where data store missions, reprogram, virsu bombs and stuff happen. I think this should be a hyper stylized and cool. I still love Johnn Mnemonic style matrix (movie!) but amped up and re-interpreted for 2077 CP.

3. Once you've penetrated into a NODE level system. it goes into a layered Isometric "ghost view" of the real world. The node system and the way it relates to the realworld is represented for example if you have hacked the security camera node and the sec cam system - you see all the security cameras working in an opaque "underlayer" real time and those cameras data signals connect in colored lines to the Node's layout wireframed or visualized over it. Now you get to have control of the vid cameras and you get a series of options. Like look through a particular camera, off on, etc. At this level your focused on one Node subsystem for the betterment of your crew who you can see now moving through the building. While system security acts normally etc. searching for yo while you stay sleazed meaning each additional node you access could trigger a security response etc.

The key here is when your a net runner you're going at the speed of light so moving through the 1st and 2nd layer happens in minutes while the 3rd layer takes place in real time - what I think is cool about this once you get to the Node subsystem level you get to see EVERYTHING that's happening the area of the city/building that the Node relates to as the ghosted under layer everything is repersented as normal EXCEPT for any subsystem you can control from the node these pop in only when you access them. Now being able to see say the whole floor in realtime that the security node controls isn't realistic, BUT as a gaming device I think it's necessary. This way if you get comprimised at the Node subsytem level - let's say the auto turrets you deactivated become active again as you fend off ICE and the system alert goes up as you struggle to turn them off again- you get to see your buddies moving through the floor in the ghosted underlayer in real time walk into the auto turrents and get ambushed UNLESSS YOU fend this ice off and get back in control of the system. This gives you a sense of urgency to the net as well makes your netrunning feel meaningful as you see the real consequences of being a net runner providing cover.

This 3 layer system would IMHO feel like the way Netrunning always seemed in my head and give the flexibility of generating lots of small contained environments rather then and "ENTIRE WORLD". It'd be just building out intelligently the buildings and assets they are already making.
 
B

braindancer12

Rookie
#45
Mar 1, 2013
ad1066 said:
I think what they meant is that traditionally in the PnP game, Netrunning ends up getting sidelined because it usually takes the other players out of the game. If the non-netrunning players are left sitting there doing nothing while the GM is going through a netrunning session with just one or two characters. My solution for this has always been twofold:

1. Simplify the mechanics of netrunning.
2. Intercut the netrunning with what the other players are doing.

A lot of that will not be relevant in the video game, since the mechanics can be as complicated as the devs want, the computer/console will handle all of that on the back end, and more to the point, if it's single-player, there's no one else hanging around waiting for you to hack the surveillance system or open the doors for them.

Also, the devs should present the player with obstacles that can be overcome not only with direct force, but clever use of the environment, including hacking automated defense systems to gain control over them, and the like.

-- Ben
Click to expand...
Agreed
 
wisdom000

wisdom000

Forum veteran
#46
Mar 1, 2013
gawdzila said:
What do you mean by "viable"?
Surely you don't mean to imply that the situations presented in the game should always be only, or most optimally, solvable with a gun? If you simply mean to say that Netrunner's shouldn't be as good at combat as a Solo then I agree, but we also have very different ideas of what "viable" means.
Click to expand...

I think what they meant was, in the PnP game, only netrunners could really run the net.... other people could jack in, read there e-mails and play video games, but they couldn't actually netrun, they couldn't hack or whatnot...

This is a major reason why there should not be a limit to the number of Roles a player can take... a netrunner who picks up a gun can shoot, and get better at it... the more time he spends in combat, he should start eanring combat sense. A medtech who joins a band should be able to start earning charismatic leadership like a rocker., A fixer who hangs out with nomads should start earning family like a nomad...

The original game just limited you to one role, and it was a spot of contention for many. Even when they did add rules for multiple roles, they were as wonky and bullshit riddled as the old multi-class rules for ADnD.
 
B

braindancer12

Rookie
#47
May 4, 2013
this would be a nice feature during Netrunning ;)

 
thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#48
May 4, 2013
braindancer12 said:
this would be a nice feature during Netrunning ;)

Click to expand...
Yep, virtual reality with the optional sexy nurses is the way to go :D

Anyway, i think a virtual reality similar to Futurama's internet would be the best option for netrunning.

 
B

braindancer12

Rookie
#49
Aug 5, 2013
thewarsend said:
Yep, virtual reality with the optional sexy nurses is the way to go :D

Anyway, i think a virtual reality similar to Futurama's internet would be the best option for netrunning.

Click to expand...
i liked that in Fututrama :)
 
Decatonkeil

Decatonkeil

Forum veteran
#50
Aug 5, 2013
Shadowrun on Genesis did this pretty well. There was a lot of stats and programs for the cyberdeck to take into account. It captured really well the Johnny Mnemonic feel of the Matrix (well, I'm talking about the movie so... the Internet) as a reality that folded over ours through nodes that had a physical presence in the terminals. It was next to imposible to learn without a manual though.
DE:HR might be a little to simple and easy, but it was involved and not too distracting.
 
chriswebb2020.736

chriswebb2020.736

Forum veteran
#51
Aug 5, 2013
Decatonkeil said:
Shadowrun on Genesis did this pretty well. There was a lot of stats and programs for the cyberdeck to take into account. It captured really well the Johnny Mnemonic feel of the Matrix (well, I'm talking about the movie so... the Internet) as a reality that folded over ours through nodes that had a physical presence in the terminals. It was next to imposible to learn without a manual though.
DE:HR might be a little to simple and easy, but it was involved and not too distracting.
Click to expand...
 
walkingdarkly

walkingdarkly

Senior user
#52
Aug 6, 2013
thewarsend said:
Yep, virtual reality with the optional sexy nurses is the way to go :D

Anyway, i think a virtual reality similar to Futurama's internet would be the best option for netrunning.

Click to expand...
From what I've read about The Net that netrunners run on, this is pretty close to what I've envisioned.

Though not so crammed together.
 
chriswebb2020.736

chriswebb2020.736

Forum veteran
#53
Aug 6, 2013
I always saw the 2020 net as being more like Tron.

Personally, I would have expected the net to be abandoned after the Data Krash. Seeing as the virus code is built into the very building blocks of the net, it seems far better to create a brand new one from the ground up, one that is not compatible with the old one to prevent contamination.

It's a perfect opportunity for a blank slate for the nets creation.
 
thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#54
Aug 6, 2013
ChrisWebb2020 said:
Click to expand...
I like the hacking minigames. I think shadow style hacking with Futurama style exploring would be the best option..
 
Decatonkeil

Decatonkeil

Forum veteran
#55
Aug 6, 2013
The only thing I know is I don't want hacking to be realistic. It has to be romantiziced the same way as it is in Neuromancer. Cyberpunk authors like William Gibson at the time of writing that book hadn't even touched a computer before and when they finally did they felt disappointed by the lack of "magic" (magic in quotation, of course). Netrunners and other hackers-by-other-names in cyberpunk works do embody characteristics of real life codeslingers, but it's better if we keep them cyberpunk rad, not real life boring. It sometimes can be hard to explain why a hacker would put his or her brain in danger when he or she could just risk the software of a computer (you usually need excuses like processing power, or it being a more intuitive process with more speed) but it's a staple and it should stay that way.
 
E

eaterwolf

Rookie
#56
Aug 6, 2013
Decatonkeil said:
The only thing I know is I don't want hacking to be realistic. It has to be romantiziced the same way as it is in Neuromancer. Cyberpunk authors like William Gibson at the time of writing that book hadn't even touched a computer before and when they finally did they felt disappointed by the lack of "magic" (magic in quotation, of course). Netrunners and other hackers-by-other-names in cyberpunk works do embody characteristics of real life codeslingers, but it's better if we keep them cyberpunk rad, not real life boring. It sometimes can be hard to explain why a hacker would put his or her brain in danger when he or she could just risk the software of a computer (you usually need excuses like processing power, or it being a more intuitive process with more speed) but it's a staple and it should stay that way.
Click to expand...
I like it, yeah.

Give me "magic", CDPR ;-) .
 
blank_redge

blank_redge

Rookie
#57
Aug 7, 2013
Decatonkeil said:
It sometimes can be hard to explain why a hacker would put his or her brain in danger when he or she could just risk the software of a computer...
Click to expand...
Considering a staple of the game (and indeed, the genre) is direct neural interface, in one form or another, it makes sense to be directly jacked in. Synapes are faster than your meat fingers can react, neh?
 
N

Neural_Cipher

Rookie
#58
Aug 7, 2013
so what your all saying is that the game should come with electrodes we can directly attach to our heads for the ultimate immersive experience. Yeah i could go for some of that.

in reality however something akin to flying at a system ala f-zero x, in fact shadow run did a good job at this for the time, your construct enters the system and flys towards aspects of i to try and crack it - really this reminds me of dixi flatline. In short i have no idea how this can be handled well.... but damn that shadowrun did a good job of it, just needs to be modernised, for todays standards. (god can you imagine if this hacking part was in 3d as well... cool)
 
chriswebb2020.736

chriswebb2020.736

Forum veteran
#59
Aug 7, 2013
Neural Cipher said:
so what your all saying is that the game should come with electrodes we can directly attach to our heads for the ultimate immersive experience. Yeah i could go for some of that.

in reality however something akin to flying at a system ala f-zero x, in fact shadow run did a good job at this for the time, your construct enters the system and flys towards aspects of i to try and crack it - really this reminds me of dixi flatline. In short i have no idea how this can be handled well.... but damn that shadowrun did a good job of it, just needs to be modernised, for todays standards. (god can you imagine if this hacking part was in 3d as well... cool)
Click to expand...
Imagine the possibilities with the Oculus Rift!
 
B

braindancer12

Rookie
#60
Aug 7, 2013
thewarsend said:
I like the hacking minigames
Click to expand...
i dont.....most hacking mini games become boring when you do them to often...
 
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