So, if a player played FLAWLESSLY, blocking all attacks, that means they could stay indefinitely in a battle, never "knowing" the game wanted him to become overwhelmed and allowed for a failure in play to move the game along. Just seems counter-intuitive.
I remember a similar issue in the Mafia 2 game where you had to lose a fight with a enemy whom you would later get a second shot at beating. I must have restarted that battle 40+ times, gone through HOURS of frustration each time he started 1-shot knocking me out, immediately stopping the game and reloading from a save until one time I took my hands off the keyboard, let him beat me, and found the developer wanted me to lose in order to move the game forward.
I can remember wanting to find those developers on the street and break their noses for introducing that game mechanic. If you want me to lose, tell me before I start the process.
I remember a similar issue in the Mafia 2 game where you had to lose a fight with a enemy whom you would later get a second shot at beating. I must have restarted that battle 40+ times, gone through HOURS of frustration each time he started 1-shot knocking me out, immediately stopping the game and reloading from a save until one time I took my hands off the keyboard, let him beat me, and found the developer wanted me to lose in order to move the game forward.
I can remember wanting to find those developers on the street and break their noses for introducing that game mechanic. If you want me to lose, tell me before I start the process.
I didn't kill Letho. There was no reason for Geralt to kill him 
I generally agree and I like the idea of these "unevitable quests and encounters as well" but I think the design apporach for the first fight could have been better. I agree with the others that it should have been Geralt who caused Letho to flee from the fight. If they wanted Letho to win the fight they should have made the fight impossible to win for Geralt from the very beginning no matter what and not giving him a fair chance to only "make him lose by design". That really wasn't the best idea for the design of this encounter imo...
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Meaning you'd progress the story no matter how badly you fight? That is not at all more satisfying from an "overcoming the challenge" perspective.
Well, there was a chance to survive, flee (until they stop chasing you) and then take the other path.
Agree with this point: attempt to fight with the whole camp of trained knights doesn't sound like a good idea and should be punished in some way. Although couple of hours later Geralt will do the same thing in Kaedwenian or Nilfgaardian quarters, but now for clear reason
It would make sense to see this cutscene after Letho wins. I don´t want to remove obstacles but that cutscene for me personally sucked after you won. It made me more annoyed than satisfied.
I agree that this should have been a cutscene death at least after 1 - 2 minutes of fighting no infinite respawn.
But regarding the fact that this was a choice from TW1 and also regarding Geralt himself saying something along the lines that he would have no chance to fight himself through I think it was pretty obvious you could only get through there if you had done something before to appease the Order, which again then relates to the TW1 save game import.
I think though choices with unforeseen consequences should stay.
On the other hand, a good quest design should in those cases heavily imply and underline that you can NOT go that path if you don't have special requirements (in this case a good relationship to the order)
But regarding the fact that this was a choice from TW1 and also regarding Geralt himself saying something along the lines that he would have no chance to fight himself through I think it was pretty obvious you could only get through there if you had done something before to appease the Order, which again then relates to the TW1 save game import.
I think though choices with unforeseen consequences should stay.
On the other hand, a good quest design should in those cases heavily imply and underline that you can NOT go that path if you don't have special requirements (in this case a good relationship to the order)
Maybe a timer would solve both situations, if you survive for more than 10 min the knights take you in custody same if you die, if you fight letho for more than 15 min the fight ends and he he apears tired in the cut scene, if you die after 10 min you get the vanilla cutscene and if you die before 10 min you have to try again, problem solved
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The pyromaniac alchemist video is strangely fun and satisfying to watch!
It's all about suspension of disbelieve. Do you really expect geralt to take on whole order of the flaming rose by himself? I guess not, sure he is monster slayer but he is also a human, he bleeds, gets tired and feel pain. It would be silly to assume that he can murder whole paramilitary organization by himself in one swipe.
Whole another issue is actually winning a fight in game but losing in the cutscene. That's what cdpr should avoid or at least improve upon. Game should recognize that the player won a fight, that doesn't mean that losing a fight always leads to reload. Imagine that first fight with letho and depending on if you win or lose, the story might progress differently, it would add another layer of reactiveness to the story.
Whole another issue is actually winning a fight in game but losing in the cutscene. That's what cdpr should avoid or at least improve upon. Game should recognize that the player won a fight, that doesn't mean that losing a fight always leads to reload. Imagine that first fight with letho and depending on if you win or lose, the story might progress differently, it would add another layer of reactiveness to the story.
Agreed, he is kicking their asses
That would be indeed a good point.
The game should have not hinted that it was an option or act to take if there was no chance for success. It would be akin to a GPS telling you to take a left turn down a one way street when the directions towards your destination were to have taken the other direction.
The quest doesn't tell you to fight your way through the The Order though. It tells you to check out the camp, you checked it out and the Order attacks you, so the quest tells you to retreat and follow Iorveth. That isn't "forced failure" since it doesn't lead to auto death or any type of detriment. Its simple a matter of one decision not working out as planned, which is fine as long as the game never punishes for those decisions.
Letho fight forced failure I don't like, getting killed by Iorveth or Roche when captured I do, and getting pincushioned in the Kaedweni camp I also like. Nicely illustrates that Geralt is mortal and in a perilous situation, while on the other hand the Letho fight invalidates your playing.
If they'd given Letho a plot reason for winning i.e. he's harnessed the power of the Elven Baths or he knows of Geralt's weak knee then i'd have been satisfied, but it was just a plot BUT THOU MUST moment.
Edit: Far too much accessibility and catering to arses in modern games, insisting that nobodies challenged or has to learn the game. No you're not a fucking special snowflakes and your shit does stink, if you do something stupid you deserve to be punished.
If they'd given Letho a plot reason for winning i.e. he's harnessed the power of the Elven Baths or he knows of Geralt's weak knee then i'd have been satisfied, but it was just a plot BUT THOU MUST moment.
Edit: Far too much accessibility and catering to arses in modern games, insisting that nobodies challenged or has to learn the game. No you're not a fucking special snowflakes and your shit does stink, if you do something stupid you deserve to be punished.
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It was fun going back through and seeing if Iorveth's company would actually kill you. It was probably the most obvious one too. Kissed his royal ass I did.
The only one that got me with me being oblivious was in the dungeon with Roche. I can't remember the dialogue but it didn't seem like it'd get you killed.
The only one that got me with me being oblivious was in the dungeon with Roche. I can't remember the dialogue but it didn't seem like it'd get you killed.
I agree with Bloth. Keep the dialog/situational sequences that can get you killed, but they need to back away from boss fights that get scripted for the sake of the plot. TW1 did it even more than TW2.
@Csaszar: in the dungeon you get an opportunity to attack Roche through a series of dialog sequences. Ves and her crossbow put an end to it in a hurry. A marvelous little moment.
@Csaszar: in the dungeon you get an opportunity to attack Roche through a series of dialog sequences. Ves and her crossbow put an end to it in a hurry. A marvelous little moment.
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The first time I played was with difficult QTE's turned off. The next playthrough, they were on. I got Geralt killed by both Loredo AND his mum because I was too busy watching the cinematic and didn't notice the QTE prompt come up.
i dont know if this was mentioned before but at the part where the walking up to the order was an option there was a ring that you get from Siegfried in TW1 that lets you pass i think.
Only if you'd supported The Order in the latter half of TW1. Otherwise, you still get warned that going in that way may not be a good idea.