my meme game is lame, but.
EDIT: oh no, now they're supporting CCP censorship too. will it ever end?
They wont respond, there is nothing to responds to. Story is finished, majority of people are actually like the story, what you see in this thread is a echochamber. At the most they can do is probably maybe expand it a bit, but thats it
No. It is intentionally ambiguous as it is in most sci-fi subject matter. No one can prove the Ship of Theseus because it's a philosophical paradox.
Unless you can prove that Picard isn't Picard every time he deconstructs and reconstructs elsewhere through the use of a teleporter. Or the stacks in Altered Carbon are in fact consciously not the same person after the transport to a new sleeve.
The assumption in all sci-fi is that by some magical means the human conscious is not only maintained but restored perfectly on the other side of any given transfer. It's like the Star Trek: TNG episode where the audience sees a teleporter process through the eyes of Barclay.
Damn all.
Y'all went hard this week. Wish I could check the forum at work more often.
Y'all went hard this week. Wish I could check the forum at work more often.
Just wait for a bit, if you look at the achievements on GOG then only 8% of the players have even finished the storyline. And this here is already the fastest growing thread.
I had rather few technical issues on PC (so I was not distracted with crashes), so I immediately focused on the story and it did not take long to realize how many holes there are and how disappointing the choices turned out to be, especially when you consider what was promised.
Let players catch up....the tone is gonna change soon.
Still is ruined by 6 month timer.
I don't like the 6 month timer either but that isn't what I'm talking about.
So what is the "soul" that Soulkiller destroys? Why is being hit by Soulkiller portrayed as a compromise?
I don't think it's ambiguous, for the record. At the very end there are dialogue choices where Alt straight up refers to you as a copy.
I have been wrong over the past few days; I was so caught up in what Alt said in the ending sequence that I did not truly pay attention to the information in the Epilogues, especially the Aldecaldos epilogue. Upon re-examining/replaying two endings, I have reached a new conclusion: there is a happy ending in the game where V definitely lives and survives their condition.
So last night I replayed the ending that I thought was most optimistic of them all, being the Aldecaldos ending with Judy romanced, and I'm actually going to go back on what I've said before in this thread, because I think I was wrong to say there are only definitively bad endings. I don't think the Aldecaldos ending is definitively one where V lives, but it is the only one, I think, where it is heavily implied that V will survive.
Firstly, we need to refer to this comment from @amsquared. From this information, I think we can deduce that V in game does not die when jacking into Mikoshi; in this instance, "Soulkiller" is a tech oriented around Engram copying/moving, and in this instance, it seems more that the full consciousness and "soul" of V is digitized for a short time. This would also explain why the game doesn't just end when you jack in; you play as V's consciousness, so thereby, when V is digitized, it's the real V. There is not "CTRL-V" because V stays alive throughout this scene.
Secondly, we need to refer to the dialogue options at the end of the game. I'll put screenshots below in a spoiler of the ones I find most important, with captions of each. In short, talking with Panam, you can learn that you are taking medicine from Vik that helps (presumably delay or lessen the effects) of your immune system attacking your brain, learn that Panam and the Aldecaldo's have contacts that have "dragged people out of worse cesspits" to paraphrase what she says, and otherwise learn that a lot of the people you're leaving with are legitimately happy in spite of the losses endured.
Thirdly, we need to recognize the actual antagonist of the game. We could argue whether Johnny, Alt, Arasaka, etc are antagonists in various degrees, but there is one true antagonist overall; Night City itself. The very method in which it exists, the social, political, economic issues within it, the corruption and violence, the unrelenting destruction of peoples' lives... if there is any analog "soulkiller", it would be Night City; it sucks you in, tries to imprison you with ideas of "living forever" as a legend, and you then will die, slowly or quickly, and Fade Away, which, with that analysis, makes the "Path of Glory" one of the darkest epilogues as you are faced with that unresolvable dichotomy. So, the only way to succeed, to be happy, to have hope, is to abandon Night City entirely, to get out of the prison of the city and "take life into your own hands".
Fourth, we need to reference the character messages at the end credits (this presumes doing all possible side quests, and doing your best to help everyone); Vik is happy, looking out for you, River is working to try to make Night City better from the inside from being immensely influenced by V, Rogue is still kicking in the Afterlife and seems to have come to terms with Johnny even if not knowing his fate, Kerry is learning to let go of the past and begin again as part of his "Life Loops" philosophy. Judy is "happy for the first time in [her] life" escaping with V into the badlands. This is the only ending where nobody feels truly excluded, and everyone has hope and optimism for the future. I'll come back to Misty at the very end.
Importantly here is Kerry's "Life Loops" philosophy, or if we reference a different game, Fallout: New Vegas's "Dead Money" DLC's "Let Go and Begin Again" message. Letting go of past ambitions, chains that bind us -- this is something Judy mentions when driving out of Night City; she talks about how she dreamed of escaping with Evelyn, and then states how she was saying it noting that she was moving on; letting go to begin again.
Finally, is Misty's tarot cards at the end: "The Chariot, The Lovers, and The Sun". Using this website about Tarot cards and recognizing that, in this game, Tarot seems to be legitimate given Misty's accuracy in her readings, we can come to some implied conclusions based off all the info we had and with these three cards.
The Chariot
"The Chariot predicts success in a specific situation. The success will be clear and powerful, transmitting complete satisfaction and glory."
The Lovers
"The symbolism of the card is obvious: love." (based on what Judy says when giving a Tarot read before Panam arrives, also has to do with family, friends).
The Sun
"The sunlight returns to illuminate our path and eliminate the perils of darkness. Now our path is brighter and free from dangers. A period of serenity and happiness awaits. After difficult periods (darkness), everything is taking a turn for the better. Great personal gratification because a positive moment follows less fortunate ones."
With this in mind, my interpretation at least is that, with friends, a new family, and a likely life-long partner in love, coming out of a dark and oppressive place and set of circumstances, there is a clear and definite path towards success, towards life. V, in this interpretation, will assuredly live given all else we've experienced in the game before this ending.
This screenshot will be important later in a dialogue moment with Cassidy
Vik's drug helps stave off V's conditions
With the Chariot and Sun cards in mind, we can presume success in finding the contacts...
... and success in getting the necessary help.
Cassidy here gives perhaps a meta-comment on the ending; "if you think it'll all turn out like shit, it will". With this in mind and everything that reassures us, we thereby must conclude that V lives, finds the medication or surgery or whatever else V needs, and that such treatment is successful, and that thought process is constantly supported by everything else said throughout this epilogue.
To me, this is one of the most important elements to the game. "but if I return home... lost then is my glorious renown, yet shall my life long endure". It is only by abandoning Night City, the prison of "glory", and only by "letting go to begin again", that V survives, and that V's "life long endure(s)". This data shard is the most reassuring moment here, especially contrasted by that of the "Path of Glory" ending, where, at least from my interpretation, V is doomed, not only to die from her condition, but to eventually fade away, lost in the prison of souls that is Night City.
TL;DR: I was legitimately wrong. The Aldecaldos ending is, upon re-examination, immensely uplifting, optimistic, hopeful, and, with everything that we are provided, basically guaranteed to result in V living. All the epilogue information here is reassuring, is there to tell us that not only we survived Night City and its terrors, but that our family did, our friends will, and, if romancing Judy/Panam, so will our love.
I say the Aldecaldos/Judy Romance ending is the best since it guarantees Judy escapes her living torment in Night City with someone that makes her "happy for the first time in her life", and so the lesbian V ending is the best possible one in my opinion, which I think kind of sucks since I think a straight V or male V should be able to "save" Judy as well in the Aldealdos path.
So last night I replayed the ending that I thought was most optimistic of them all, being the Aldecaldos ending with Judy romanced, and I'm actually going to go back on what I've said before in this thread, because I think I was wrong to say there are only definitively bad endings. I don't think the Aldecaldos ending is definitively one where V lives, but it is the only one, I think, where it is heavily implied that V will survive.
Firstly, we need to refer to this comment from @amsquared. From this information, I think we can deduce that V in game does not die when jacking into Mikoshi; in this instance, "Soulkiller" is a tech oriented around Engram copying/moving, and in this instance, it seems more that the full consciousness and "soul" of V is digitized for a short time. This would also explain why the game doesn't just end when you jack in; you play as V's consciousness, so thereby, when V is digitized, it's the real V. There is not "CTRL-V" because V stays alive throughout this scene.
Secondly, we need to refer to the dialogue options at the end of the game. I'll put screenshots below in a spoiler of the ones I find most important, with captions of each. In short, talking with Panam, you can learn that you are taking medicine from Vik that helps (presumably delay or lessen the effects) of your immune system attacking your brain, learn that Panam and the Aldecaldo's have contacts that have "dragged people out of worse cesspits" to paraphrase what she says, and otherwise learn that a lot of the people you're leaving with are legitimately happy in spite of the losses endured.
Thirdly, we need to recognize the actual antagonist of the game. We could argue whether Johnny, Alt, Arasaka, etc are antagonists in various degrees, but there is one true antagonist overall; Night City itself. The very method in which it exists, the social, political, economic issues within it, the corruption and violence, the unrelenting destruction of peoples' lives... if there is any analog "soulkiller", it would be Night City; it sucks you in, tries to imprison you with ideas of "living forever" as a legend, and you then will die, slowly or quickly, and Fade Away, which, with that analysis, makes the "Path of Glory" one of the darkest epilogues as you are faced with that unresolvable dichotomy. So, the only way to succeed, to be happy, to have hope, is to abandon Night City entirely, to get out of the prison of the city and "take life into your own hands".
Fourth, we need to reference the character messages at the end credits (this presumes doing all possible side quests, and doing your best to help everyone); Vik is happy, looking out for you, River is working to try to make Night City better from the inside from being immensely influenced by V, Rogue is still kicking in the Afterlife and seems to have come to terms with Johnny even if not knowing his fate, Kerry is learning to let go of the past and begin again as part of his "Life Loops" philosophy. Judy is "happy for the first time in [her] life" escaping with V into the badlands. This is the only ending where nobody feels truly excluded, and everyone has hope and optimism for the future. I'll come back to Misty at the very end.
Importantly here is Kerry's "Life Loops" philosophy, or if we reference a different game, Fallout: New Vegas's "Dead Money" DLC's "Let Go and Begin Again" message. Letting go of past ambitions, chains that bind us -- this is something Judy mentions when driving out of Night City; she talks about how she dreamed of escaping with Evelyn, and then states how she was saying it noting that she was moving on; letting go to begin again.
Finally, is Misty's tarot cards at the end: "The Chariot, The Lovers, and The Sun". Using this website about Tarot cards and recognizing that, in this game, Tarot seems to be legitimate given Misty's accuracy in her readings, we can come to some implied conclusions based off all the info we had and with these three cards.
The Chariot
"The Chariot predicts success in a specific situation. The success will be clear and powerful, transmitting complete satisfaction and glory."
The Lovers
"The symbolism of the card is obvious: love." (based on what Judy says when giving a Tarot read before Panam arrives, also has to do with family, friends).
The Sun
"The sunlight returns to illuminate our path and eliminate the perils of darkness. Now our path is brighter and free from dangers. A period of serenity and happiness awaits. After difficult periods (darkness), everything is taking a turn for the better. Great personal gratification because a positive moment follows less fortunate ones."
With this in mind, my interpretation at least is that, with friends, a new family, and a likely life-long partner in love, coming out of a dark and oppressive place and set of circumstances, there is a clear and definite path towards success, towards life. V, in this interpretation, will assuredly live given all else we've experienced in the game before this ending.
This screenshot will be important later in a dialogue moment with Cassidy
Vik's drug helps stave off V's conditions
With the Chariot and Sun cards in mind, we can presume success in finding the contacts...
... and success in getting the necessary help.
Cassidy here gives perhaps a meta-comment on the ending; "if you think it'll all turn out like shit, it will". With this in mind and everything that reassures us, we thereby must conclude that V lives, finds the medication or surgery or whatever else V needs, and that such treatment is successful, and that thought process is constantly supported by everything else said throughout this epilogue.
To me, this is one of the most important elements to the game. "but if I return home... lost then is my glorious renown, yet shall my life long endure". It is only by abandoning Night City, the prison of "glory", and only by "letting go to begin again", that V survives, and that V's "life long endure(s)". This data shard is the most reassuring moment here, especially contrasted by that of the "Path of Glory" ending, where, at least from my interpretation, V is doomed, not only to die from her condition, but to eventually fade away, lost in the prison of souls that is Night City.
TL;DR: I was legitimately wrong. The Aldecaldos ending is, upon re-examination, immensely uplifting, optimistic, hopeful, and, with everything that we are provided, basically guaranteed to result in V living. All the epilogue information here is reassuring, is there to tell us that not only we survived Night City and its terrors, but that our family did, our friends will, and, if romancing Judy/Panam, so will our love.
I say the Aldecaldos/Judy Romance ending is the best since it guarantees Judy escapes her living torment in Night City with someone that makes her "happy for the first time in her life", and so the lesbian V ending is the best possible one in my opinion, which I think kind of sucks since I think a straight V or male V should be able to "save" Judy as well in the Aldealdos path.
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I wouldent trust that. my playtime is still at 23h55 min hasent updated in like 1 week ^^ havent played much more then 40 but.
I dont talk with you can easily see it with games reception. As ive reading reddit, watching YouTube reviews, critic reviews. There is lot to complain about CP but the story stands.
Well in Cyberpunk lore it states that:
cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Soulkiller
So there is no ambiguity there. Once Soulkiller works on someone, the person dies and a copy is generated.
A poor objection to Soulkiller that rides on wishful thinking and ignored dialogue.
First: Story isn't finished as there is DLC planned. Now what that'll be we can only guess.
Second: AGAIN we don't hate the story but the lack of choice = NO REPLAYABILTY
And who knows man if this thread keep gaining more traction maybe there will be something not necessarily good but something. As more people finish I suspect there will be more outcry but it seems bugs have deterred lots of people rn.
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which kind of screws up things for straight fem V and gay male V, since their love interests don't want to leave the city.
I understand choosing the lesser of, erm, 7 evils, but not everyone plays lesbian fem V or male straight V, and those people's experiences and playthroughs are just as valid as ours. I say, all Vs should have some hope, not just those two.
Most of those "BIG" reviewers are full of shit. They play game once, rush through it and that's it. They review game based on their hype and view of the game, mostly ignoring big faults. Usually the smaller reviewers are much more honest.
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Wait, aren't in this ending, dialogs with Alt completely ruins the ending. Where even V says "I was hoping for happy ending" ?
