[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[bcraig6010]

I like it not having a happy ending. This is a dark story, there is nothing happy about the future presented here. If you can't get joy out of a story unless there is some cream-dream-happy scene at the end, you probably shouldn't look to dystopian fiction.

Of all the things they lied about when selling this game, a happy ending was never promised that I saw. Though I would love to see it if I missed that interview or twitter post. I understand your expectations and feelings on this, but I think you are missing the point of the story because you want it to be the "standard" story you are probably used to. Did you like Blade Runner or consider that a happy ending? Perhaps Terry Gilliam's Brazil? How about 12 Monkeys (I will stop mentioning Terry Gilliam movies, though he had clear influence on many of the writers and artists at CDPR). Johnny Mnemonic had a semi-happy ending if I remember properly, but I also read that the studio did a lot of work to make it more mainstream.

You should check out Disney for happy endings. I guarantee you that the "good guy" wins in all of those stories, and the dirtiness, sadness, pain, and suffering expressed in the story will only be short lived, and enough to boost the payoff that you can comfortably rely on.

*sigh* Watch Seven. Very dark. Vary sad. No one hates the ending - why? The morgan freeman character - after everything disturbing and dark we go through - begins to care again - not going to retire. The journey he went on MEANT something.

Shawshank redemption is not the story of andy deufrees going through hell of a prison sentence he did not deserve and escaping. It's the story of Red's redemption. Old man leaves prison after 40 years behind bars and life ruined. But he sees his friend on the beach - and we aren't mad over his lost 40 years - we are happy hes on the pacific ocean - with his friend

V has no journey - V is a vessel for johnny's story and only thing that matters is the choose your color choice on the balcony - which does NOT have a darn thing to do with what you should do after the assault. Yet the game decides your V only interested in glory and becomes uber merc to get rch and blow money on stupid stuff for a dying person.

We have no agency - the near futile endings are the stake in the heart reminding us we had no say, no agency, and nearly no hope.

 

[Ronin1712]

My problem with the Aldecaldo ending is that we still have to cooperate with Alt which leads to V getting soulkilled. The ending itself looks quite positive but I still have a feeling that V just allowed a skynet-type AI to consume the whole Arasaka's database.

I hope Cyberpunk universe has its own John Connor.

 

[Barsenthor]

Johnny's death being worth mentioning means it was ALWAYS focused on him. The problem is that was breaking canon and that's why they changed it.

Seriously, there's never been a chance this story wasn't about Johnny in your head.

Just how and why?
This game was a mainstream release Most people/general audience didn’t know the Johnny, and they bought the game from 2018 gameplay demo that started the hype train. If he is so important character then why he appear only in Act 2 and is not present throughout the whole story?

The fact that they even thought that the game needs some star to back it up is astonishing, let alone to make him or here a main focus in the game.

It can be even the only big game that makes the real life star to be a protagonist.

Like why? The story about the V being pursued by Yorinobu in the open world game with unintrusive MQ would make this game a GOTY material be default

 

[Willowhugger]

We have no agency - the near futile endings are the stake in the heart reminding us we had no say, no agency, and nearly no hope.

I think the problem here is that your V has to make their own meaning from it. He or she is a blank slate and you have to chose what you do with the ending.

* Do you side with Arasaka to survive as an immortal soul in their service?
* Do you stay with the Aldecados to live an uncertain but free future away from Night City?
* Do you want all the wealth, power, and fame of taking over the Afterlife?
* Do you want to transcend your mortality and/or make your death mean something by saving your friend Johnny.

Or do you just want to do good for what little time you have left like my V? Why he helped River, Judy, and Panam.

This game was a mainstream release Most people/general audience didn’t know the Johnny, and they bought the game from 2018 gameplay demo that started the hype train. If he is so important character then why he appear only in Act 2 and is not present throughout the whole story?

Mike Pondsmith said they wanted to tell a story heavily based around Alt and Johnny's story, which was the central focus of the game's metaplot anyway. They even included the adventure "Never Fade Away" in the game and have you play through it,

Never Fade Away (Adventure)

Never Fade Away is a mini adventure featured in both Cyberpunk 2013 and Cyberpunk 2020. It is the opening of what is considered the Cyberpunk story and revolves around the kidnapping of Alt Cunningham by Arasaka. 1 Overview 1.1 A Cyberpunk Adventure 1.2 Trauma Ward 1.3 The Naming of Names 1.4...

cyberpunk.fandom.com

The game was setting you up to get the chip from the very beginning but there was never a story where you weren't half-Johnny/half you.

Like why? The story about the V being pursued by Yorinobu in the open world game with unintrusive MQ would make this game a GOTY material be default

Not liking it is perfectly valid but it doesn't mean what it wasn't intended. There's plenty of people who hate Yennefer and love Triss but that doesn't mean the game isn't slanted to romancing the former.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Yeah to be legend in NC is so force on V.

 

[bcraig6010]

Jepp, choom

we should not place too much trust in them.... the same people who insitigated vast change in the story in '18, and cut content, and decided to release the game as-is -

are also the ones who decide where it goes from here and what is in fact added.

 

[Willowhugger]

Yeah to be legend in NC is so force on V.

I think part of the issue is the fact that V is a blank slate protagonist unlike Geralt. They might have worked better if they'd made them more defined. Because some gamers clearly don't care about becoming a Legend in Night City and wonder why the game keeps implying we should. Others are selfish bastards. Others want to be Night City Batman and save the city.

Which is GOOD because that means we're roleplaying different kinds of characters.

We're more Dragonborn than Geralt.

This is notably WHY Johnny exists, though. Blank slate protagonists can't have story arcs so you have to create characters to base any emotional story on. Hence blank slate protagonists tend to be supporting protagonists.

 

[bcraig6010]

I think the problem here is that your V has to make their own meaning from it. He or she is a blank slate and you have to chose what you do with the ending.

* Do you side with Arasaka to survive as an immortal soul in their service?
* Do you stay with the Aldecados to live an uncertain but free future away from Night City?
* Do you want all the wealth, power, and fame of taking over the Afterlife?
* Do you want to transcend your mortality and/or make your death mean something by saving your friend Johnny.

Or do you just want to do good for what little time you have left like my V? Why he helped River, Judy, and Panam.



Mike Pondsmith said they wanted to tell a story heavily based around Alt and Johnny's story, which was the central focus of the game's metaplot anyway. They even included the adventure "Never Fade Away" in the game and have you play through it,

Never Fade Away (Adventure)

Never Fade Away is a mini adventure featured in both Cyberpunk 2013 and Cyberpunk 2020. It is the opening of what is considered the Cyberpunk story and revolves around the kidnapping of Alt Cunningham by Arasaka. 1 Overview 1.1 A Cyberpunk Adventure 1.2 Trauma Ward 1.3 The Naming of Names 1.4...

cyberpunk.fandom.com

The game was setting you up to get the chip from the very beginning but there was never a story where you weren't half-Johnny/half you.



Not liking it is perfectly valid but it doesn't mean what it wasn't intended. There's plenty of people who hate Yennefer and love Triss but that doesn't mean the game isn't slanted to romancing the former.

Actually ponsmith said cyberpunk was about saving yourself - not the world.

"
* Do you side with Arasaka to survive as an immortal soul in their service?
* Do you stay with the Aldecados to live an uncertain but free future away from Night City?
* Do you want all the wealth, power, and fame of taking over the Afterlife?
* Do you want to transcend your mortality and/or make your death mean something by saving your friend Johnny.

Or do you just want to do good for what little time you have left like my V? Why he helped River, Judy, and Panam. "

I don't recall choosing any of these.
I only got to choose the how to assault a building choice.

From there I was railroaded into subsequent events. Or Johnny was one choosing -
Maybe, just maybe, taking on arasaka alone was to save lives - not some stupid glory and money desire.

 

[Barsenthor]

I think the problem here is that your V has to make their own meaning from it. He or she is a blank slate and you have to chose what you do with the ending.

* Do you side with Arasaka to survive as an immortal soul in their service?
* Do you stay with the Aldecados to live an uncertain but free future away from Night City?
* Do you want all the wealth, power, and fame of taking over the Afterlife?
* Do you want to transcend your mortality and/or make your death mean something by saving your friend Johnny.

Post automatically merged: Jan 5, 2021

Mike Pondsmith said they wanted to tell a story heavily based around Alt and Johnny's story, which was the central focus of the game's metaplot anyway. They even included the adventure "Never Fade Away" in the game and have you play through it,

Never Fade Away (Adventure)

Never Fade Away is a mini adventure featured in both Cyberpunk 2013 and Cyberpunk 2020. It is the opening of what is considered the Cyberpunk story and revolves around the kidnapping of Alt Cunningham by Arasaka. 1 Overview 1.1 A Cyberpunk Adventure 1.2 Trauma Ward 1.3 The Naming of Names 1.4...

cyberpunk.fandom.com

The game was setting you up to get the chip from the very beginning but there was never a story where you weren't half-Johnny/half you.

Maybe we played different games since I didn’t get any of it.
Johnny works as a talking brain cancer and being a friend with the malignant tumor is just insane.

Narrator created a Tyler because he was everything that he dream of. Here there is no such things, he is forced in the way that makes him an antagonist the moment you met him. But then game sands some conflicting messages about this.

In Fight Club after the revelation you know that Narrator will fight Tyler, and he really had the reason no to do this. In CP77 V is forced to become suicidal because reasons.

Mike so badly wanted Johnny (forget about Alt since she is in this game nothing more than a plot device) hat they just kept him hidden for the 6 years of marketing, and show you that this game is about everything else from being Max Tac through playing as a Merc to the making some meaningful choices in Pacifica.

 

[SaulTuk]

we should not place too much trust in them.... the same people who insitigated vast change in the story in '18, and cut content, and decided to release the game as-is -

are also the ones who decide where it goes from here and what is in fact added.

Aaaand modding community, at least on Nexus, don't give a shit about endings. They haven't mods for that, they didn't even had mod request for it until i made one yesterday. And this request is completely ignored now, and more recent mod request gets all the attention.

 

[bcraig6010]

The end I cried was the end that Johnny gets V's body and goes to the cemetery to say goodbye to V.
Then every ending I made, I got more and more pissed. lol.

I liked the suicide more, I hate open end!
At least Johnny isn't going to cyber hell.

Just to make you feel oh so much better......
All your friends don't know you're dead...

Johnny just up and leaves....

So they are calling a dead persons phone looking for V - and Johnny the real protagonist of this "action adventure" game never has the guts to even call or message them that their valued friend or lover V is dead.

They will forever not know what happened - unless/until someone comes across the right funeral box.

 

[Willowhugger]

Mike so badly wanted Johnny (forget about Alt since she is in this game nothing more than a plot device) hat they just kept him hidden for the 6 years of marketing, and show you that this game is about everything else from being Max Tac through playing as a Merc to the making some meaningful choices in Pacifica.

You mean the marketing that consisted of one trailer and then revealing Johnny Silverhand? They had plans for doing a CGI character Johnny before Keanu. The only change they made is having him show up to smacktalk during every quest.

Just to make you feel oh so much better......
All your friends don't know you're dead...

Johnny just up and leaves....

So they are calling a dead persons phone looking for V - and Johnny the real protagonist of this "action adventure" game never has the guts to even call or message them that their valued friend or lover V is dead.

They will forever not know what happened - unless/until someone comes across the right funeral box.

Yep. He is shittily trying to sneak out the back of the city.

Not cool, Johnny.

Not cool.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Blank slate protagonists can't have story arcs so you have to create characters to base any emotional story on. Hence blank slate protagonists tend to be supporting protagonists.

Well Watcher from PoE 1 and 2 is blank slate and story work well, same as Queen/King from Pathfinder Kingmaker

Blank Slate can have good story arc, CDPR fuck it here big time by forcing you to want to be Legend and by taking away any choices of your action, what ever you do all lead to same thing.

 

[Ronin1712]

I still want an edning where V leaves NC with Us Cracks as their bodyguard.

CDPR, please

 

[Willowhugger]

AGAIN trying to move from the damned "All the endings are too similar" nonsense

You know what's weird?

This game's central premise is very similar to KNIGHTS OF THE FALLEN ORDER except instead of Johnny Silverhand, you have the Sith Emperor in your head.

I expected more Yorinobu wanting to kill you because of Johnny Silverhand in your head.

 

[Barsenthor]

You mean the marketing that consisted of one trailer and then revealing Johnny Silverhand? They had plans for doing a CGI character Johnny before Keanu.

Post automatically merged: Jan 5, 2021

Yep. He is shittily trying to sneak out the back of the city.

Not cool, Johnny.

Not cool.

Having plans for CGI of Johnny and making him a star trying to eclipse the main protagonist are two different things.

Story suffers from this terribly and now it’s evident. Game never needed a big star and really would be better with one. Since the story has enough material to do great on its own. Maybe with Johnny being just in the background or for fan services purposes. He could even get the same Alt treatment to be plot device / secondary character like Rouge or Kerry.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

AGAIN trying to move from the damned "All the endings are too similar" nonsense

You know what's weird?

This game's central premise is very similar to KNIGHTS OF THE FALLEN ORDER except instead of Johnny Silverhand, you have the Sith Emperor in your head.

I expected more Yorinobu wanting to kill you because of Johnny Silverhand in your head.

No. He wants to kill us, because we witnessed him killing the most powerful man on earth, only for him to take his place.

Arasakas Board does know yorinobu killed his father but they can't do shit without proper evidence and it would be too risky to attack him. Hanako makes this pretty clear. On the other hand, yorinobu doesn't seem to know that the board knows.

 

[Willowhugger]

Having plans for CGI of Johnny and making him a star trying to eclipse the main protagonist are two different things.

Story suffers from this terribly and now it’s evident. Game never needed a big star and really would be better with one. Since the story has enough material to do great on its own. Maybe with Johnny being just in the background or for fan services purposes. He could even get the same Alt treatment to be plot device / secondary character like Rouge or Kerry.

Basically you seem to think they planned it differently and changed it versus always planning that and I don't see it.

Here's a bit of Mike Pondsmith interview:

An interview with Cyberpunk creator Mike Pondsmith

www.eurogamer.net

Cyberpunk 2077 is set later on than Red, so I guess this is one of the first times the way the property is presented has been out of your sole creative oversight, right? But also you're about to bring out an RPG that's bridging a gap, so are you influencing one another?

Mike Pondsmith: Oh yeah.

What are you taking from 2077?

Mike Pondsmith: Somewhere in the beginning of this but particularly in the last two years we said 'we want to end up like this, how do we get from this to that?' And it was a lucky break because the entire fourth corporate war had been designed by us years ago to change up characters and to start a new arc.

We always looked at Cyberpunk as being like a comic book. So we had finished the first arc, the 2013 arc, we're through the second arc and we're going to be going into another arc and 2077 gave us a new way to do it. So that began a collaboration where we'd say, okay well we wanna have this character alive 60 years from now. What do you wanna have them do? Well we want them to do this. Okay, but we need to have you do this character over here and show how they got built up to here. Okay, and can we bring this character back? Yeah, here's a way I figured out how to bring this character in or whatever. And you have to understand a lot of this stuff we planned in Talsorian years ago - case in point, there are certain characters that are supposed to be dead but technically nobody knows for sure that they're dead. You know? Nobody has actually gone and checked for a heartbeat. So, who knows?

So it's been very collaborative. I'll give you an example, I was over in Warsaw about... I guess this must have been two years ago, maybe three, and people were showing me guns. And the guns were these silver Star Wars-y things and I went no, Cyberpunk guns don't look like that. You know, they're large, they're black, they're brutal, they have rails, they have this, they have that, and so I literally had a long discussion with all of the weapons guys and a bunch of people in the studio.

 

[SaulTuk]

I still want an edning where V leaves NC with Us Cracks as their bodyguard.

CDPR, please

Bodyguard, lover and ruler. A band of female artists often need a firm male hand on the reigns and other places))

 

[bcraig6010]

Plenty of games have you merging with beings to become immortal cybergods. Its also usually treated as a happy ending.

MATH:
1 person merging 50/50 with the digital personae is a co-merger of TWO beings.

I Cthulhu eating 1000 people (and V) does not create V as part god.
assimilation

just like whatever you had for breakfast this morning did not somehow achieve human status and making decisions for you.