Graphic downgrade

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I feel kinda sad that I am writing my first post in this thread, but whatever.

I have read a substantial amount of stuff in this thread and the last downgrade thread(and the rest of the forums too. Been lurking for 2 years or so now). What I noticed the most was how hostile people suddenly become. When reading on these forums 2 years ago, people would disagree with each other but then they would settle their stuff in a civil way or agree to disagree. Here, people get downright offensive or(to name the other extreme) feel offended for no apparent reason. They start hacking away with always the same arguments, spinning circles. And like with a stupid dog that is trying to catch its own tail, this will lead nowhere - nowhere anyone wants it to lead anyway. All it will do is make people anxious, dislike each other for no reason and split the community unnecessarily into 2 groups of(to say it a little bit exaggerated) fanboys. Whats the point? I think it is kinda sad to see the community fight each other instead of waiting for this awesome game together. In addition, I got 2 messages I really need to get off my chest before I say something about this topic.

1. To all the downgrade sayers: Why, for the love of god, will you not allow me to read any other thread without trying to rub in my face that you believe the game is downgraded. Ok, I got it. Really, I got your message. You are disappointed because you think you will not get what you were promised some time ago. You said it once, twice, 10 goddamn times. EVERYONE knows it by now. Please, oh please, stop telling us. We know.

2. To all the people saying there is no downgrade who still, for some reason, feel the need to participate in this discussion: WTF? If you dont like this thread, if you didnt like the last one - why for gods sake do you read it and write in it then? Do yourself, and others, a favour and stop wasting your own time responding to this. Alright, you think that there is no downgrade. Thats cool. Maybe youve just got an unbroken trust in cd projekt red. Very commendable. But why, whyyyyy oh why, do you drag out threads like this one by arguing with people that you think this thread is pointless? Do you not see that they would die down on their own if people wouldnt have any opposing force to discuss this with? It would run itself down in a circle of all downgrade talkers telling each other how much the game got downgraded and the thread would die off. You would get exactly what you wanted - that people would stop talking about it. No, instead you sabotage yourself and everyone else who thinks these threads are pointless - by keeping them alive yourself. STOP IT!

Now to finally move on to my own opinion on this matter. To make it short, I do not believe there to be a downgrade. Well, nothing major at least. Yes, some changes are undeniable. The draw distance for example. But you gotta ask yourself. Would you rather have a game that lags the shit out of your system or one that looks worse than it could have looked but runs alright(which is probably the reason they changed this - if they changed it at all and didnt only lower the setting).

There are some things I myself dislike alot. The foliage was often named by alot of people. Yes, some of that looks like its from a game that was released sometime in 2006 or so. But then Ive seen some great scenes from gameplay where it doesnt look all that bad. In the end, yes it could be better and Id love for it to be better just for the future when I will have a system to actually run the game on max settings. But this is nothing that kills the game or the experience for me. The lighting, in many cases, makes up for this with very moody dusk and stuff like that. What it will actually look like when we get our hands on the game is a different story entirely and for those people saying that they want information - just wait. What the hell did you lose if you wait 3 or 4 days after release for the review of lets players and game critics on youtube, where youll actually see what the game looks like on different settings? Yeah, youve lost 3-4 days of possible time you couldve played the game. But hey, if you are so unsure if the game will actually fit you in the first place, then it might not be such a bad idea, right?

One thing I personally dislike alot is the change of art style. The darker and more gritty colours and more apparent light contrasts got mostly exchanged with brighter colours, less contrast in shadowed areas where light is shining through streets and a generally warmer look to the feel of the game itself. I was always hoping the game will go back to the dark and gritty look of W1 instead of topping the colours of W2 with even more colours. Guess I wont get that. Shame. The game will still be great though, even if its just for the 100-150h of gameplay in the first playthrough. Its not the end of the world even If it couldve been better, imo.

In the end what we should remember is that the guys working on this are passionate as hell about this. You can see this in every video they release and every interview they are featured in. The way they talk about the game, the way they explain certain things and how they always seem so excited about everything, without just looking at you with a bland face, telling you in a monotone voice "wow, i am very excited" and you thinking "yeah right...". This just brings across so many emotions. In my opinion this is probably what makes them unique these days. Surrounded by all those developers who have prostituted themselves to publishers, these guys are standing tall and living their dream and trying to bring their dream into our homes for us to enjoy. Have a little more faith in them. If anyone can pull this off, its CD Projekt Red.

Ill be back to lurking now. Enjoy.
 
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I will probably cry with frustration if something like this cannot be achieved;

http://postimg.org/image/mu25v0f6p/

Again, it's a matter of opinion/preference, but that is just *stunning* to me, as were a lot of the earlier screenshots/footage. Knowing the chances of achieving this sort of fidelity is now pretty much nil, I'm very disappointed.

Game still looks good. But you are right. This screenshot is just amazing. Its just how i imagened Witcher 3 before i saw any footage. But i still hope that i will see this graphics in ultra setting. I still believe my favorite DEV COMPANY !!!!! )))))))))
 
That shot always struck me as profound. It's on my list of places to try and find when I jump straight in on May 19th.
 
Luckily worse graphics won't take away challenging gameplay, great soundtracks and good storyline. However, I've definitely stopped trusting CDPR. I wouldn't care about this game or downgrades if it wasn't the third game in the franchise. I love first two Witcher games and I want this third game to end on a high note. I don't want another heart breaking disappointment like Mass Effect 3. That's the only reason why I want it to be best in the series and push visual fidelity like Witcher 2. I want it to be future proofed. As for Cyberpunk 2077, I won't get hyped for it after watching its initial trailer because it'll always remind me of Witcher 3's downgrade. Just like many other developers, CDPR started on PC but seems to be shifting their focus towards consoles now. Downgrade is not the only thing. I myself had no problem with Witcher 2's UI but a lot of PC gamers complained about it being controller friendly and not being good enough for mouse and keyboard. Their top priority should've been to address that complain but so far we've only seen Witcher 3 being played on a controller. Just my opinion.
 
I will probably cry with frustration if something like this cannot be achieved;

http://postimg.org/image/mu25v0f6p/

Again, it's a matter of opinion/preference, but that is just *stunning* to me, as were a lot of the earlier screenshots/footage. Knowing the chances of achieving this sort of fidelity is now pretty much nil, I'm very disappointed.

why does this screenshot look so good? because you are not looking at the grass from above. If the camera was above geralt you would see that the grass looks just like in later videos. They obviously carefuly picked the scenes to look great. You will be able to achieve these graphics in the game, im pretty sure, just dont look at grass from above, it will never look good.
 
You are right but we PC gamers cant always ONLY blame the consoles.

VGX Graphics would let the PS4 go up in flames of course... BUT look at the sys. requierments as they are and try to imagine what would have been needed for VGX Graphics.

Minimal requierments would propably equal a 1500-2000$ PC. Thats just nothing you can release. You cant build a game that 90% Of your customers cant even play on lowest settings.

Thats what many PC people here need to understand. VGX quality isnt just impossible because of the consoles but also because of what is the reality of a "gamer PC" today.

Does everyone who demands VGS quality have an I7 4970 12gb Ram and a GTX 980? because thats whats propably would be needed for VGX The Witcher 3.

Most people have a PC thats between:

AMD CPU Phenom II X4 940 and I5 4590
4-8gb Ram
Graphics Card bewteen GTX 460 to 770

Thats the range most "gaming" PCs are in.

The early footage is just not possible on those PCs not with more than 5fps...

That makes no sesne, since most people don't own PS4 and X1 either. People upgrade when they think they should. That's the reason why original Crysis sold more on PC than Crysis 2 on all platforms. Just saying.
 
I feel kinda sad that I am writing my first post in this thread, but whatever.

I have read a substantial amount of stuff in this thread and the last downgrade thread(and the rest of the forums too. Been lurking for 2 years or so now). What I noticed the most was how hostile people suddenly become. When reading on these forums 2 years ago, people would disagree with each other but then they would settle their stuff in a civil way or agree to disagree. Here, people get downright offensive or(to name the other extreme) feel offended for no apparent reason. They start hacking away with always the same arguments, spinning circles. And like with a stupid dog that is trying to catch its own tail, this will lead nowhere - nowhere anyone wants it to lead anyway. All it will do is make people anxious, dislike each other for no reason and split the community unnecessarily into 2 groups of(to say it a little bit exaggerated) fanboys. Whats the point? I think it is kinda sad to see the community fight each other instead of waiting for this awesome game together. In addition, I got 2 messages I really need to get off my chest before I say something about this topic.

1. To all the downgrade sayers: Why, for the love of god, will you not allow me to read any other thread without trying to rub in my face that you believe the game is downgraded. Ok, I got it. Really, I got your message. You are disappointed because you think you will not get what you were promised some time ago. You said it once, twice, 10 goddamn times. EVERYONE knows it by now. Please, oh please, stop telling us. We know.

2. To all the people saying there is no downgrade who still, for some reason, feel the need to participate in this discussion: WTF? If you dont like this thread, if you didnt like the last one - why for gods sake do you read it and write in it then? Do yourself, and others, a favour and stop wasting your own time responding to this. Alright, you think that there is no downgrade. Thats cool. Maybe youve just got an unbroken trust in cd projekt red. Very commendable. But why, whyyyyy oh why, do you drag out threads like this one by arguing with people that you think this thread is pointless? Do you not see that they would die down on their own if people wouldnt have any opposing force to discuss this with? It would run itself down in a circle of all downgrade talkers telling each other how much the game got downgraded and the thread would die off. You would get exactly what you wanted - that people would stop talking about it. No, instead you sabotage yourself and everyone else who thinks these threads are pointless - by keeping them alive yourself. STOP IT!

Now to finally move on to my own opinion on this matter. To make it short, I do not believe there to be a downgrade. Well, nothing major at least. Yes, some changes are undeniable. The draw distance for example. But you gotta ask yourself. Would you rather have a game that lags the shit out of your system or one that looks worse than it could have looked but runs alright(which is probably the reason they changed this - if they changed it at all and didnt only lower the setting).

There are some things I myself dislike alot. The foliage was often named by alot of people. Yes, some of that looks like its from a game that was released sometime in 2006 or so. But then Ive seen some great scenes from gameplay where it doesnt look all that bad. In the end, yes it could be better and Id love for it to be better just for the future when I will have a system to actually run the game on max settings. But this is nothing that kills the game or the experience for me. The lighting, in many cases, makes up for this with very moody dusk and stuff like that. What it will actually look like when we get our hands on the game is a different story entirely and for those people saying that they want information - just wait. What the hell did you lose if you wait 3 or 4 days after release for the review of lets players and game critics on youtube, where youll actually see what the game looks like on different settings? Yeah, youve lost 3-4 days of possible time you couldve played the game. But hey, if you are so unsure if the game will actually fit you in the first place, then it might not be such a bad idea, right?

One thing I personally dislike alot is the change of art style. The darker and more gritty colours and more apparent light contrasts got mostly exchanged with brighter colours, less contrast in shadowed areas where light is shining through streets and a generally warmer look to the feel of the game itself. I was always hoping the game will go back to the dark and gritty look of W1 instead of topping the colours of W2 with even more colours. Guess I wont get that. Shame. The game will still be great though, even if its just for the 100-150h of gameplay in the first playthrough. Its not the end of the world even If it couldve been better, imo.

In the end what we should remember is that the guys working on this are passionate as hell about this. You can see this in every video they release and every interview they are featured in. The way they talk about the game, the way they explain certain things and how they always seem so excited about everything, without just looking at you with a bland face, telling you in a monotone voice "wow, i am very excited" and you thinking "yeah right...". This just brings across so many emotions. In my opinion this is probably what makes them unique these days. Surrounded by all those developers who have prostituted themselves to publishers, these guys are standing tall and living their dream and trying to bring their dream into our homes for us to enjoy. Have a little more faith in them. If anyone can pull this off, its CD Projekt Red.

Ill be back to lurking now. Enjoy.

Welcome to the forums!

1. It’s important to debunk the suggestion that disagreement is reprehensible or unproductive. It’s neither. Progress requires the ability to criticize bad ideas. Therefore, disagreement amounts to the natural consequence of following through on that necessity. Criticism in the open marketplace of ideas that the internet has become is a hallmark of contemporary democracies and also a trait that gives them the edge over closed monolithic societies.

The only mostly safe assumption is all forum members are Witcher fans. From then onward everything is open for debate and probably bound to divide.

2. The idea of pervasive hostility in this specific thread should be played down. It’s a controversial topic which poignantly illustrates the shortcomings a forum debate has over a live face-to-face conversation. I'm sure we’re all aware better graphics is neither the solution to West Africa famine nor the cure for Ebola. It’s just the inescapable nature of a written lagged conversation centred on an extremely narrow topic getting the better of posters. But such narrowness is in fact the bread and butter of forums and thus vehemently enforced by moderators. Notice though the additional bias and suspicion any discussion on graphics has to put up with: criticising, say, the Alchemy system has never been equated with hating on the whole game or with believing Alchemy is the be-all and end-all for The Witcher 3. And yet not a day goes by without someone dropping by with a straight face to accuse the downgrade side of exactly that.

But there are things definitely worth getting upset about. When the North American community manager said what he charitably had to say about this thread, to keep silence would be nothing short of cowardice. When someone is asked for hard data to back up his blanket claim and he defaults to accusations of ad-homenin, it is definitely worth spending time educating that gentleman on what an ad-hominem actually is.

Let’s not neglect but instead highlight one of the main reasons these debates are so popular: They’re enjoyable. Provided it all remains civil - and theoretically that’s why we have moderators patrolling the premises – it really is good fun to debate. I think that in its own right dispels some of the animosity in the air.

3. I don’t recognize the forum you’re talking about, where allegedly most threads get infected and side-tracked by constant cries of a downgrade. For example, the «Constructive criticism» thread, the most likely to get contaminated, so much that it excluded any downgrade talk right in the title, has remained pretty much immune throughout. I know I myself have deliberately not brought the issue up there. Poor dungeon lighting doesn't qualify; it doesn't illustrate the visual degradation. As far as I'm concerned, dungeon lighting has always been poor.

4. Where exactly have you read innuendo or even open accusations of laziness, lack of commitment or lack of passion directed at REDs? I can tell you that kind of ludicrous defamation directed at Bethesda and Todd Howard was not uncommon on forums when Skyrim launched, but I have yet to read a single post even remotely similar around here. Probably because just about everyone acknowledges their infectious enthusiasm and dedication to the game. Unfortunately, passionate developers are not exempt from making what some might perceive as mistakes.

5. You've written nine long paragraphs that don’t strike me as the typical drive-by post. I don’t quite see the point in seeding a discussion with nine thoughtful paragraphs only to proclaim one’s intention to abandon it right after. That doesn't do justice to the time and thought you've clearly put into them.

It’s obviously entirely up to you.
But stick around.
Be the change you want to see happening.
 
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The downgrade is straight obvious by looking at the screenshot comparisons. These are all clear evidence. I seriously have no idea why CDPR is doing this. If they did not, they really should just come out clean and explain the situation. But they chose to keep silence? Why? Which pointing to being more and more being admitting it. At least that is how i'm seeing it.
 
The downgrade is straight obvious by looking at the screenshot comparisons. These are all clear evidence. I seriously have no idea why CDPR is doing this. If they did not, they really should just come out clean and explain the situation. But they chose to keep silence? Why? Which pointing to being more and more being admitting it. At least that is how i'm seeing it.

There's Ultra, which they haven't shown yet. So until I see that, I won't complain too much. :)
 
There's Ultra, which they haven't shown yet. So until I see that, I won't complain too much. :)

"Ultras" hardly ever change a game in a really vital way. It mostly add higher AA, sometimes "longer" LOD and some ultra-heavy-things-that-do-not-really-affect-the-experience like Hairworks. The general models, textures, shadows etc. are usually present in "high" as well. I pray for TW3 to be an exception, but there is hardly a chance.
 
There is no more silly and meaningless things than being disappointed of the video screenshots.they aren't real screenshots.If you really disappointed, you can immediately choose to leave the witcher series off, playing high quality games in your eyes, you can also choose to see the real sceenshots by providing from others on may. Don't waste your time in despair.
 
"Ultras" hardly ever change a game in a really vital way. It mostly add higher AA, sometimes "longer" LOD and some ultra-heavy-things-that-do-not-really-affect-the-experience like Hairworks. The general models, textures, shadows etc. are usually present in "high" as well. I pray for TW3 to be an exception, but there is hardly a chance.

Yet in some games things people complain about here like vegetation and water can make quite a jump from high to ultra.

i bet my ass it will look stunning on Ultra.

But people need to accept VGX Trailer graphics was never realistic.
A PC that could handle VGS details even on Medium details would be way more than an average Gaming PC.

many people crying "i want VGX graphics" are ignoring the fact that the requierements are hefty as they are. 90% of Gamers dont have a PC to handle VGX Graphics. not even close.

Yes you can argue "well leave those graphics in for the 10% which can run it" but you have to realise that XB1 and PS4 are SO far away from beeing good enough for VGX quality that for TW3 to run on those consoles substantial changes had to be made to the engine.

VGX Graphics is long gone.
 
maybe they underwent the same process like me in writing my master thesis. first i wanted to add reeeaaall benefits to the world. after a while i decided slight approvements to the word would suffice. a while later i thought that it is ok to provide others with informations and a method to improve the world... and at the end i just wanted to finish the damn thing on time in whatever way ;)

while the above is true for me i believe in cdpr and their effort and passion for this game. from a graphical standpoint i therefor believe in the ultra-uber settings, even if the chances to match some shown screenshots in this thread are slim.
 
If you put the console version of TW2 side by side with the PC version, you're going to get a relatively shoddy looking game next to a gorgeous looking game. My hope is that's the case here. But dang, that grass is oogly.
 
"Ultras" hardly ever change a game in a really vital way. It mostly add higher AA, sometimes "longer" LOD and some ultra-heavy-things-that-do-not-really-affect-the-experience like Hairworks. The general models, textures, shadows etc. are usually present in "high" as well. I pray for TW3 to be an exception, but there is hardly a chance.

On the contrary, it could mean high res textures, higher grass density/details, grass shadows, higher poly models, better water and various other things.
Also shadow quality could be affected as well, since it could be a real hog and various games provide the option to tweak the shadows settings.

I'll repeat myself, I want to see Ultra before I can pass judgement for myself, but even on High, the game looks beautiful.

I think they are aiming for High to look as good as possible, because the majority of people will use that, not Ultra, consoles are one for certain.
 
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On the contrary, it could mean high res textures, higher grass density/details, grass shadows, higher poly models, better water and various other things.
Also shadow quality could be affected as well, since it could be a real hog and various games provide the option to tweak the shadows settings.

I'll repeat myself, I want to see Ultra before I can pass judgement for myself, but even on High, the game looks beautiful.

I think they are aiming for High to look as good as possible, because the majority of people will use that, not Ultra, consoles are one for certain.

Well it depends on what's being set to Ultra. Most PC games that are worth a dang let you change variables independently, so you can set Textures to Ultra or Shadows to Ultra or Water to Ultra, etc.

I do think it's reasonable to assume that the difference between High and Ultra grass textures is not going to make that construction-paper-looking grass turn into the beautifully swaying seas of green that we saw in the original trailer. If it did, it would be unprecedented. Not only would the textures have to increase, so too would the entire poly model, the physics, and the lighting effects. If the grass in question were Low quality, I might believe that Ultra could mimic the VGX trailer, but I've never played a game with that much of a difference between High settings and Ultra.
 
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