Magical Signs in TW3

[Bellator Pius Gratus]

I hear a lot of guys were using the "Quen"-Sign, but I guess, thats the quen, after some patches. Because the Quen I know whas just a personal shielding with no other effect whatsoever. Now it seems to also deal damage when you get hit.

I guess the Axii's "conversion-time" just made it impossible to use. Because you only need it if there are too many enemies at once, and if there are, the other guys - but the one you try to get control over - will just simply attack you. So I too only used Axii in dialogs, which is kind of sad.

And since the magic-tree seemed a bit weak, I never got to heliotrop, what's it do ?

Cheers
Pargulan

The thing is, the more points you spend in trees the more you see of that particular tree. Of course you know this but the effects on later levels really really made a difference. Quen did indeed dish out damage on higher levels. Patch? If I remember correctly this was the initial design, not something patched in later on.

Here's one story for you though regarding spending talent points and the difference I've already mentioned. I finished Witcher 2 the first time with only two Vigor bars. Two! I had no idea that you could get more. Using the Quen sign at that, these didn't regenerate until the shield was depleted. And this was before updates and enhanced edition that changed some very vital things regarding parry and riposte so I rolled a lot. :laughing:

 

[Guest 2812644]

Signs for me were primarily used to take the initiave or break up the mob and get to the flanks. I used Aard and Quen most with Igni reserved for those opponents with exposed flesh. Yerden and Axii were oppurtunistic and used to shape the fight. Often a little Red haze thrown rather than AXii because it took less effort to deploy. But let's be honest; I died alot. It would be interesting to hear what some pitfighters from the areana have to say.

 

[B_l_a_d_y]

Ultimate power of aard should be something like this

You know ragdolls are the best

 

[Shelledfade]

Quen is by far the best sign if you're playing darkmode or insane mode.

 

[Aes Sídhe]

Here's one story for you though regarding spending talent points and the difference I've already mentioned. I finished Witcher 2 the first time with only two Vigor bars. Two!

hahah classic Bad bout of amnesia that Geralt got.

Often a little Red haze thrown rather than AXii because it took less effort to deploy.

I make good use of that stuff usually, Axii not so much.

Quen is by far the best sign if you're playing darkmode or insane mode.

Darkmode is by far the best if you don't use Quen

I wouldn't advocate nerfing Aard, lots of people love it, may be some even need it. Just choose not to use it, simples.

 

[Indescribable]

I did as much as I could in the mage tree my first run around. If you maxed out igni it was very powerful. More powerful than aard (unless the creature was more susceptible to freezing than fire... like gargoyles/stone golems). I did also max out quen and it was probably a bit overpowered, but really useful when on dark mode later in the game when it took like 2-3 hits to die depending on the attacker. I wish I had gotten more chance to use axii, never did because of the activation time. Yrden was good, but my fighting style cause me to rarely use it. I'm most interested to see what the alternative modes the signs have that the developers were talking about.

 

[sidspyker]

Well that's how you played, the signs I commonly used were - aard, igni, axii.
It heavily depends on the kind of character you build. I for one almost always go for Alchemy so for example in FCR when I last played Igni combined with a few other alchemical components(petri's philter and something else) do superior damage in the value of ~100+

As a magic build you can use the signs in different ways etc.

 

[Garrison72]

Signs need work, for sure.

Aard - The most diverse sign in TW2. I'm happy with what I've seen and heard of it in the leaked gameplay vid. It sounds deeper, rumbling, more intimidating. I hope the AOE Aard attack isn't their sole answer to managing groups of enemies though. They can keep this sign essentially the same - knock back, stun chance, affect weakened walls, blast enemy off ledge. If I'd add anything, it would be utilizing Aard on the environment against foes. In one fight from the books, Geralt blinds attackers by blasting sand into their faces. There's all sorts of dynamic environmental objects that could serve a similar purpose in the game.

Ignii - imo, this was the most powerful sign in TW1, but still useful in TW2. I'm glad they added a sustained flame thrower effect. I hope we can burn all sorts of objects in the game and ignite swathes of grass to cordon off enemies in a fight.

Axii - needs a serious overhaul. Only safe way to cast it was using Quen first. It just took too much time. Upgraded Axii was of minimal worth. They should make the sign more diverse. Have different types of effects on foes, or the ability to hex more than one foe at a time.

Yrden - needs a significant overhaul. It was useful in TW2, but hardly worth upgrading. The whole trip wire thing, what was the point of that when it only trapped one enemy? Have the traps do significant damage, or allow Geralt to cast them from a distance, in the same manner we could slow time and aim with bombs. Allow him to cast larger traps, or more than one at a time.

Finally, I hope upgrading signs is more interesting this time. Make the sign do something new, don't just expand the AOE or make it stronger.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Hey Guys!

I've watched I guess all interviews and videos about TW3 already and I'm kinda curious about how they plan to "improve" upon the signs. Specifically how they want to make other signs than AARD usable.

In TW2 - at leas for me - AARD was far superior to all the other signs due to it's instant effects and -till fcr2- the ability to stun enemies. Other signs were completely useless if it wasn't for specifically designed encounters like the Kayran. I even tried at my last playthrough to use "igni" instead of aard, but ended up switching to aard again, because igni wasn't even close to how good aard is.

So regarding TW3, it's a confirmed fact, that the signs will have some sort of special improvements. As far as I understand, it's like you can chose AARD to be an effect who hits everything in front of you, or make it a surrounding effect or whatever. If that's the case for ALL signs, we might get a chance to utilize igni, or even some axii signs

But isn't the overall-concept of the signs a bit flawed if you only want to use "aard" and not all of them. Or at least "more". If i recall correctly, in TW1 you could use - lets say - Igni, to set enemies to fire (like those archespores) and your choices of signs were at least somewhat caused by the monsters you faced.
In TW2, setting on fire didn't really do that much, if you managed to do so at all.

So, what do you guys think about the AARD being way to superior to all the other signs. Does it bother you ?!

Cheers
Pargulan

I'm going to be honest with you here. I think that is your personal opinion that one only wants to use Aard, becuase I personally did use Aard about 3 times in each of my entire playthroughs.

My main Sign to use is Quen, since I am more the alchemy/mage/swordsman hybrid, then I use Yrden sometimes to keep enemies at distance while attacking others (very useful for Gargoyles IMO) and then I use Axii to create a distraction or Igni to set a whole group of enemies in front of me on fire.
Aard was about the least useful sign for me personally.

I think it depends highly on your preferences and on how you personally use the signs. I myself think that every sign has it's advantages and when you know those each sign can be used in a situation that is ideal for it.

I normally use Yrden if I have large groups of enemies, Quen no matter what, Igni if I deal with humans and animal-like monsters, Aard mostly against mages (since Aard can pierce through the protection shield the Mages have) and if I want to stop an enemy attack right in front of me, and Axii also with huge groups, although mostly only with groups of humans.

I like that they want to improve the signs (I just hope they get the mages right this time, they should be more "Powerful", at least in terms of magic itself), especially if it comes to crowd control, time-based shielding (using Igni to keep an enemy away from you for a few seconds) and other effects one could possibly think of.

Never used Heliotrop.

I liked that one very much, was very useful for crowd control and if fighting against other powerful magic or semi-magic creatures or humans.

I hope the basic philosophy of TW2'S skilltrees is kept or expanded upon, it's great to see others agree they are versatile, since occasionally someone posts they're insufficient, and I tend to think they just haven't explored them.

The only thing I hate about the skill tree are the mutagens.
The system is complete and utter bogus.
That needs a big overhaul.

But since I am always the hybrid kind of guy I had a good amount of points in all trees, less in Swordsman (but enough to make some damage), just a tad bit more in Alchemy (because Impregnation), and the most in magic. A combination of all is IMO the best you can do for me personally, I like that very much. But even there you can go back and forth and see which one is the most efficient and balanced combination.

I for example never upgraded Aard because I didn't use it often, only upgraded Igni once and rather went for Quen and Yrden and Helio, plus - of course - Sign intensity.

Yrden I've never found use for

It's best for either a lot of enemies or for big enemies. I for example did kill the Endrega Queens with it. Gives you some breathing room if you fight against monsters which have a lot of charging attacks and are fast to follow your dodges.

Axii - needs a serious overhaul. Only safe way to cast it was using Quen first. It just took too much time. Upgraded Axii was of minimal worth. They should make the sign more diverse. Have different types of effects on foes, or the ability to hex more than one foe at a time.

Yrden - needs a significant overhaul. It was useful in TW2, but hardly worth upgrading. The whole trip wire thing, what was the point of that when it only trapped one enemy? Have the traps do significant damage, or allow Geralt to cast them from a distance, in the same manner we could slow time and aim with bombs. Allow him to cast larger traps, or more than one at a time.

While I agree that those 2 need an overhaul I have to say that those things you mentioned, such as hexing multiple enemies or casting multiple Yrden traps are already in the game as 2nd or 3rd level of those signs.

 

[Mohasz]

Aard - (...) If I'd add anything, it would be utilizing Aard on the environment against foes. In one fight from the books, Geralt blinds attackers by blasting sand into their faces. There's all sorts of dynamic environmental objects that could serve a similar purpose in the game.

That would be great, especially now that Geralt can cast signs continously so maybe the player could aim at the ground. I'm not sure if that's how it is going to work, but I'd like it that way (some kind of free-aim mode that could be used for such things mentioned above).

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Or being able to cast Aard on a wall or (unstable) tree when enemies are standing behind it.

 

[Mohasz]

Or being able to cast Aard on a wall or (unstable) tree when enemies are standing behind it.

Awesome in theory but things probably won't get that dynamic in TW3. CDPR is great, but they're not wizards (yet).

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Awesome in theory but things probably won't get that dynamic in TW3. CDPR is great, but they're not wizards (yet).

Yeah, I imagine as much. It's not a "must have" on my list

 

[EmperorZorn]

Or being able to cast Aard on a wall or (unstable) tree when enemies are standing behind it.

You are not that far away from the truth, Black~

In an interview last year, a CDPR employee confirmed that you can manipulate most of the in-game environment ;
you can for example throw back a market stand with apples using AARD and watch apples and stand fall physically correct.

I don't think using walls and trees as weapons will be possible, but then again CDPR has said a few times
that in some instances we can use the environment to our advantage in combat - not sure what they mean with that.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

You are not that far away from the truth, Black~

In an interview last year, a CDPR employee confirmed that you can manipulate most of the in-game environment ;
you can for example throw back a market stand with apples using AARD and watch apples and stand fall physically correct.

I don't think using walls and trees as weapons will be possible, but then again CDPR has said a few times
that in some instances we can use the environment to our advantage in combat - not sure what they mean with that.

Probably scripted in case of boss monster fights (like the Leshen) and stuff like that.
Though I would be positively surprised if it was non-scripted and you could use it wherever there are those environmental objects.

 

[Bellator Pius Gratus]

Looks dynamic enough.

 

[Mohasz]

Looks dynamic enough.

That is 'just' some flashy PhysX thing. By dynamic I mean falling stuff affecting monsters / bandits etc. in a realistic (and ofc not scripted) way.

 

[Scheuk]

They definiely need to work on balancing signs, they didn't do an amaing job in either TW1 or TW2. Don't agree that Aard in TW2 is far superior than the rest of the signs, though.

No, in Witcher 2 Quen was the OP spell.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

That is 'just' some flashy PhysX thing. By dynamic I mean falling stuff affecting monsters / bandits etc. in a realistic (and ofc not scripted) way.

Exactly. The pic shows sign usage on the enemies around Geralt while we are talking about Sign usage on environment which in turn does harm enemies somehow. (Like for example casting Aard on a wall which causes the bricks to then fall upon enemies next to it, or using Aard on a broken tree to throw it on an enemy or using Igni on the ground to actively restrict enemies and force them to go around the fire line to attack you).

 

[IsengrimR]

I love Aard... my favorite little fun-thing to use while slashing people to death, in W1 and W2.

Is it superior to each and very sign? Nah, it has a chance to stun, but Yrden is a much better snare/stun, Igni is... fire... very fun to use hellfire.
Still Aard is sign I use cause of personal preference ( "Use the Force, Harry!" - Gandalf ).

Igni was a tad unbalanced in Witcher 1, otherwise... each sign has it's use, and I think it should stay this way.