New Story DLC

[458speciale]

You could do it where each of the main endings feeds into a single post-game DLC via a different prologue. But it's much more likely to be a pre-endgame questline IMO.

point is: what interest does the player have in such a story? To give you an example, knowing how games of thrones ends up I don't care at all to see the prequel, because the whole plot for me is hopelessly ruined. Come back to NC for a few hours of missions completely useless to the main cause (every end is basically dramatic) doesn't give me any motivation. I speak for myself of course. V life is doomed no matter what

 

[DarthasBinar]

My prediction for the expansion:
- new quest line as a part of main story parallel to other main story questlines
- new ending (happy ending for V, death for Johnny)
- some sort of expansion of the poor choice and consequence system of the game thanks to longer main story (their last chance to fix that)
- it would be nice to see some additional quests for key characters that deserve more spotlight and screen time (Jackie, Dex, T-bug, Yorinobu, ...)
- possibly new lifepath: "cop" or expansion of existing lifepaths (for example same exclusive staff/quest for each)
- new explorable areas (probably in pacifica)
- new skills or skill trees, maybe even related to new mechanics (gun-fu)
- new braindances (probably related to quests, not standalone)
- new gigs and side quests


My predition for patches 1.6 and later:
- hopefull they will finally fix god awful gameplay animations (takedowns, finishers, ladder climbing) - this is number one request from me
- proper police system
- car chases should be finally implemented properly
- 4 new gigs we already know
- new weapons
- shooting ranges to train skills
- expansion of crafting - transmog system - hiding unwanted clothes (might be part of the expansion rather than patch)
- extremely unlikely: metro/train travel in some basic shape or form
- maybe they somehow improve poor storytelling of gigs by adding story content (additional conversations) - that would be a miracle

 

[koalahugs]

but other games aren't dealing with a dying protagonist who has weeks to live and constantly coughing and hacking up blood and vision issues to remind you you're dying.... but wait.. there is this new area/new set up quests over here.. just forget youre on a timer and dying.. do this here other thing instead!!

The painted themselves into a corer with what they went with in their final story revision.

Post automatically merged: Jul 25, 2022

I have ZERO desire to play more adventures of the Dying-V who is told over and over has mere weeks to live and already coughing up blood.... too suddenly add to all off the other cognitive dissonance by going off on even more useless and wont help you live side quests.

they never should have had such divergent endings... never should have resolved nothing in the main story except binary dead/still-dying but in 4 different flavors

Yeah, I think a pre-ending expansion would only have value if it ties directly into the story's main conflict (i.e. relates to saving V's life). The fact that that conflict doesn't have a conclusion in most of the endings is honestly one of the most jarring things about this story.

I get that there isn't a right or wrong way to execute denouement, but leaving that particular element hanging in CP77 has always struck me as odd. You typically don't do that unless you're planning to continue the story somehow - or in this case to possibly AMEND the story (perhaps that was always their plan).

BTW, if anyone is wondering what the heck "denouement" is, here's an excellent educational video by Studio Binder here:

Super relevent to any discussion about CP77's ending.

It's basically how you end a film (same principles apply here) and often has 3 elements:
1) Main conflict conclusion;
2) Resolution;
3) Thematic recall.

There isn't a right or wrong way to execute denouement; you can have all 3 elements, only 1 or 2, or even just avoid denouement completely. Just depends on the story. Highly recommend watching that video for more.

In the case of CP77, leaving out that first element just doesn't work for me at all. But maybe the expansion will deal with that.

 

[Rawls]

point is: what interest does the player have in such a story? To give you an example, knowing how games of thrones ends up I don't care at all to see the prequel, because the whole plot for me is hopelessly ruined. Come back to NC for a few hours of missions completely useless to the main cause (every end is basically dramatic) doesn't give me any motivation. I speak for myself of course. V life is doomed no matter what

That's fair. It's just what is most likely given the widely divergent narratives in the ending. [EDIT] I think the fun is continuing to get to explore additional side-narratives in the awesome setting that is Night City. But it's not going to re-invent the main quest. I mean ... I would imagine a lot of the folk who would like a "good ending" would be kinda grumpy if they made you buy an expansion to get the "good ending." [END EDIT]

And yes, V is doomed no matter what. Her body is mortal. The system is rigged. You can't "win" the rat race. At best you can sell out or muck up the gears a little bit and help some of your friends get by for maybe another day. It's cyberpunk, not a space opera. Which means it's high-tech, heavily noir-influenced, and dystopian.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I mean ... I would imagine a lot of the folk who would like a "good ending" would be kinda grumpy if they made you buy an expansion to get the "good ending."

I admit that it would be a bit vicious to separately sell as an expansion, an "happy" ending (ending in which V find a cure).
"You want V to survive, buy the expansion!"

 

[koalahugs]

That's fair. It's just what is most likely given the widely divergent narratives in the ending. [EDIT] I think the fun is continuing to get to explore additional side-narratives in the awesome setting that is Night City. But it's not going to re-invent the main quest.

There's reinventing and then there's amending. You could add extra options to those endings.

I mean ... I would imagine a lot of the folk who would like a "good ending" would be kinda grumpy if they made you buy an expansion to get the "good ending." [END EDIT]

I mean, they're already grumpy at the lack of closure as it is, so it can't make things any worse. Plus it's not like anyone complains when they watch an episode of something but still have watch the next one to get to the conclusion.

Okay, that probably sounds like an odd analogy because it's not entirely clear what they're planning to do with CP77. At the moment it very much feels like it's meant to be a standalone thing. But the problem is the main conflict isn't concluded in most of the endings. Which would be a completely normal and uncontroversial thing to do with a tv episode or a movie that's part of a series. But this doesn't quite fit with that. That being said, videogames are in the unique position of having DLC.

Having said that, I agree it would still be really controversial - if only because you kinda need to be clear that that's what the plan is from the start.

And yes, V is doomed no matter what. Her body is mortal. The system is rigged. You can't "win" the rat race. A best you can sell out or muck up the gears a little bit and help some of your friends get by for maybe another day. It's cyberpunk, not a space opera. Which means it's high-tech, heavily noir-influenced, and dystopian.

Well, yeah obviously they're mortal! It's not like V was trying to become a vampire. The issue was that the story's main conflict was V trying to stop the relic from killing them so they could get their life back (not become immortal); and this is how far they got:

(The 80yr mark is just a stick in the sand.)

^Kinda puts things into perspective. Whether it's cyberpunk or space opera doesn't really matter as much as what the main conflict is. It's pretty normal to leave some conflicts unresolved; but the main one? That's a bit odd.

And yeah, I hear you, people can argue all they want that cyberpunk is all about dystopia and squalor - but those are just themes (and those aren't the only ones, btw). It doesn't change the fact that CP77 is still a story; not just a mood or a showcase for a few cyberpunky themes. It includes themes, yes, but it also includes characters, conflicts, obstacles, and all of that is structured into a story. It's got a beginning, a middle and an end. It's got a set-up, a tilt-shift, a climax, a denouement. It's got a main character and a main conflict that goes through that process. I don't see how you can ignore all of that and have a massive loose end "because cyberpunk". I'm not saying you can't do it at all, I'm just saying you need a better reason than that.

It's not as if there's some rule saying, "regardless of how we've set things up and told our story, if it's cyberpunk the protagonist dies and if it's space opera, the protagonist lives". You know? You have to judge each story on a case by case basis. I mean, heck, look at Mass Effect; a space opera where the protagonist can die in the end. Does that undermine its denouement? No, because the main conflict has nothing to do with that. The main conflict wasn't the fight to keep the hero alive, it was the fight to stop the baddies from killing everyone.

If the main conflict of CP was something other than what it was, then that would've totally reframed everything, and the story wouldn't have had this problem. But who knows, maybe they wanted the audience to feel unsatisfied and deflated by the end - but somehow I doubt it.

 

[Guest 4412420]

As one of the grumpy people who is unsatisfied by Cyberpunk's endings, I couldn't care less if I had to buy an expansion to get a better option as long as said better ending existed. CDPR's expansions are meaty so it's not like you're paying 10-20 bucks just for an ending. There's hours upon hours of new, well-crafted content.

Besides, if the overall quality is good, I think most people wouldn't mind it much. See Trespasser DLC for comparison as many consider it to be the true ending. There were some complaints, sure, but it was still the best received out of all Inquisition's DLCs.

My opinion isn't universal of course, but it would be much appreciated if some alterations were made to the existing endings or if a new and satisfactory ending was added that didn't hijack V's personality in order to brute force a theme, but I ranted about my issues with Cyberpunk's endings enough in a different thread.

 

[Netrunner2go]

well no-one knows if the dlc would change an ending or not - its as unclear as the opinion that v dies no matter what. we can just wait and see.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

As one of the grumpy people who is unsatisfied by Cyberpunk's endings, I couldn't care less if I had to buy an expansion to get a better option as long as said better ending existed. CDPR's expansions are meaty so it's not like you're paying 10-20 bucks just for an ending. There's hours upon hours of new, well-crafted content.

I guess not, it wouldn't be a problem for those who enjoy the game and just have a "problem" with endings. But it would be "giving a stick to get whipped" or "turn the other cheek to get another slap" (I don't no if it make sense in english^^). In short, offering one more good opportunity to make headlines for "bad" reasons...

 

[Guest 4412420]

I guess not, it wouldn't be a problem for those who enjoy the game and just have a "problem" with endings. But it would be "giving a stick to get whipped" or "turn the other cheek to get another slap" (I don't no if it make sense in english^^). In short, offering one more good opportunity to make headlines for "bad" reasons...

Sorry, but I fail to see how that matters? There's going to be negative press no matter what they do.

There's a good chance we'll only be getting one expansion, this alone would probably get several articles written about how evil CDPR lied when they said that Cyberpunk will get no less DLCs than TW3. Whether he was talking about free DLCs or post-release content in general doesn't matter. We're talking about video game journalism here and I doubt anyone asked the man to clarify.

The game's map not being expanded enough by opening previously inaccessible areas, expansion's story taking V's focus away from a pretty urgent main objective (which you get reminded of with relic malfunction pop-ups) and thus increasing the dissonance even more, all these things are also likely to be criticized. If CDPR were so scared of negative articles they should bury their heads in sand and not release anything, but they'd receive criticism for that too.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Sorry, but I fail to see how that matters? There's going to be negative press no matter what they do.

There's a good chance we'll only be getting one expansion, this alone would probably get several articles written about how evil CDPR lied when they said that Cyberpunk will get no less DLCs than TW3. Whether he was talking about free DLCs or post-release content in general doesn't matter. We're talking about video game journalism here and I doubt anyone asked the man to clarify.

The game's map not being expanded enough by opening previously inaccessible areas, expansion's story taking V's focus away from a pretty urgent main objective (which you get reminded of with relic malfunction pop-ups) and thus increasing the dissonance even more, all these things are also likely to be criticized. If CDPR were so scared of negative articles they should bury their heads in sand and not release anything, but they'd receive criticism for that too.

Like I say, maybe it doesn't matter for you, but for me, there is a slight difference on being critized because you finally decide to not releasing two expansions as announced for whatever reason (which could be understandable) and being critized because you sell an expansion with the "good" ending that alls of those with the base game won't have (if we consider a cure for V as a "good" ending), which seems to be a little bit "viscious".

Like if they decide to sell some paid DLCs of this kind:
Jackie ($5): Save him.
Evelyn ($5): Save her.
Dexter Deshawn ($5): Kill him yourself.
That would be a bit dubious business practice in my opinion

But it's just my opinion which doesn't really matter too, I'll buy the expansion whatever it woudl be


Edit : But don't get me wrong, I'm not against. I would be a problem (for me) only if it's "paid" content. If it's free (DLC/update/whatever), no problem at all. To take the example of Mass Effect, no problem with the "Shepard's breath under the rubbles" because it was added with the free "extended cut" DLC available for everyone.

 

[458speciale]

That's fair. It's just what is most likely given the widely divergent narratives in the ending. [EDIT] I think the fun is continuing to get to explore additional side-narratives in the awesome setting that is Night City. But it's not going to re-invent the main quest. I mean ... I would imagine a lot of the folk who would like a "good ending" would be kinda grumpy if they made you buy an expansion to get the "good ending." [END EDIT]

And yes, V is doomed no matter what. Her body is mortal. The system is rigged. You can't "win" the rat race. At best you can sell out or muck up the gears a little bit and help some of your friends get by for maybe another day. It's cyberpunk, not a space opera. Which means it's high-tech, heavily noir-influenced, and dystopian.

The fact that the setting is a dystopian and cruel futuristic world doesn't mean that the main character has to die. There are thousands of ways to have a bitter/sad ending without that this mean death anyway and anyhow: we have to think that we are talking about a videogame with multiple endings, not a movie, the replayability factor suffers the matter! It's useless give me so many different endings if they always go in the same direction no matter what... I have no reason to replay, I can't change anything, my choices are useless and basically a waste of time. For this reason I really hope an ending in which V have a more concrete hope to find a cure, even if they just letting you guess (for example the end "destruction" in ME3)

 

[Rawls]

It's not as if there's some rule saying, "regardless of how we've set things up and told our story, if it's cyberpunk the protagonist dies and if it's space opera, the protagonist lives".

Nope. But space opera does lean towards heroic journeys and cyberpunk leans towards tragedy. It's rooted in noir, which is a deeply pessimistic genre in general. It's not that the protagonist (including V) has to die, but they almost never get a happy ending.

Also, V isn't dead yet in several of the endings. The Star and Glory endings aren't tragedies. They're ambiguous. Certainly V's situation still looks desperate. But pretty much everyone who isn't a Corpo's life in this setting flirts on the edge of desperate all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if V's in "Cyberpunk 2078" or whatever they want to call it. I wouldn't be surprised if they're not in it either. But even if she doesn't die in the short term. She's still probably doomed to an at best ambiguous ending, because that's the nature of the genre.

 

[koalahugs]

Nope. But space opera does lean towards heroic journeys and cyberpunk leans towards tragedy. It's rooted in noir, which is a deeply pessimistic genre in general. It's not that the protagonist (including V) has to die, but they almost never get a happy ending.

Alita Battle Angel (the cyberpunk movie) ends with the hero rising up to a cheering crowd. Meanwhile Avengers Endgame (a family DISNEY film) ends in a funeral. And yet both are satisfying endings and neither are thematically or tonally compromised. This whole argument that genre limits what kind of ending you can have completely falls apart once you start analysing these things in detail.

That's why I was making the point that this is a case by case thing. The ending that makes the most sense for your story is more dependent on the specific details of that story (e.g. what's the main conflict, who are the characters, what are the themes, etc.), not only what the genre is. I dunno, maybe this all sounds too abstract - did you watch the video about denouement further up? It's honestly very useful.

In any case, @458speciale hit the nail on the head; what's the point in having multiple endings if most of them puts V in the same place anyway? I don't think there could be a more valid point on this issue.

Also, V isn't dead yet in several of the endings. The Star and Glory endings aren't tragedies. They're ambiguous.

Yeah they're ambiguous, that's the problem; I mean... that's literally what the bulk of my post was about.

Certainly V's situation still looks desperate. But pretty much everyone who isn't a Corpo's life in this setting flirts on the edge of desperate all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if V's in "Cyberpunk 2078" or whatever they want to call it. I wouldn't be surprised if they're not in it either. But even if she doesn't die in the short term. She's still probably doomed to an at best ambiguous ending, because that's the nature of the genre.

I don't think it's the nature of the genre to not conclude the narrative's main conflict. You can conclude the main conflict without undermining all of those themes.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

The fact that the setting is a dystopian and cruel futuristic world doesn't mean that the main character has to die.

Here an interview with Mike Pondsmith which start like that :

Spoiler

Matthew : "And of course, Mike Pondsmith, the man who killed your character in Cyberpunk, Mike Pondsmith. And when I say that Mike, I'm not just blowing smoke, I have here my original copy from when I was a kid and you killed my characters..."
Mike Pondsmith : "I'm glad you have a good time dying"
Anyway, as far as I know, Mike Pondsmith seems to be quite sitisfied by the story written by CDPR, a story in which your character, obviously... die

 

[Didacgomez]

In any case, @458speciale hit the nail on the head; what's the point in having multiple endings if most of them puts V in the same place anyway? I don't think there could be a more valid point on this issue.

Take a 2nd or 3rd look at them, not counting the state of NPCs and the world each ending conveys a different meaning for V and how he/she come to terms with the situation.

don't think it's the nature of the genre to not conclude the narrative's main conflict. You can conclude the main conflict without undermining all of those themes.

If you look at the source material they do the same at each edition:johnny assaulting arasaka to rescue Alt,johnny assaulting Arasaka at the end of 4th Corpo War and doing urban renovation... the narrative driver is a "human" but the narrative itself is the conflict and the ramifications... the "protagonist" is just by accudent.
You can find Case in Neuromancer for example, that you don't hear anything about him till Mona Lisa Overdrive and is just the phrase "he retired"... there are multiple examples in the genre, and sometimes theres no closure at all you just can guess what happens to the protagonist (if somebody didn't read it I recommend the short story "New Rose Hotel"-movie is little meh-, you can find lot of tropes found in CP2077).

 

[458speciale]

Here an interview with Mike Pondsmith which start like that :

Spoiler

Matthew : "And of course, Mike Pondsmith, the man who killed your character in Cyberpunk, Mike Pondsmith. And when I say that Mike, I'm not just blowing smoke, I have here my original copy from when I was a kid and you killed my characters..."
Mike Pondsmith : "I'm glad you have a good time dying"
Anyway, as far as I know, Mike Pondsmith seems to be quite sitisfied by the story written by CDPR, a story in which your character, obviously... die

I don't care what Mike Pondsmith think. And I don't care what David Benioff and Dan Weiss think. I care about what I think. I play the game, with my brain and my body, not with other ones . In the meantime cdp's shares collapsed, not mine. Maybe they will be interested in knowing the average opinion of the players ...
Apart from that Mike have no interest in criticizing the game based on his Intellectual property for obvious reasons...

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I don't care what Mike Pondsmith think. And I don't care what David Benioff and Dan Weiss think. I care about what I think. I play the game, with my brain and my body, not with other ones . In the meantime cdp's shares collapsed, not mine. Maybe they will be interested in knowing the average opinion of the players ...
Apart from that Mike have no interest in criticizing the game based on his Intellectual property for obvious reasons...

Fine
But unlike you, CDPR cared and still care about what Mike Pondsmith think...That's why they worked with him (and R. Talsorian) for more than 10 years to make Cyberpunk (about the lore, the story, Night City, the characters, even the weapons design/look...). I think, exactly like they did with The Witcher before

On a side note, I don't think the cdpr's shares "collapsed" have something to do with the story itself and even less with V's death at the end... As reminder, Cyberpunk was awarded on Steam as "2021 Outstanding Story-Rich Game" by players. So I believe, in "general", players enjoyed Cyberpunk's story (probably not some other things like bugs/issues/bad performances, for sure...).

 

[Bataski]

Fine
But unlike you, CDPR cared and still care about what Mike Pondsmith think...That's why they worked with him (and R. Talsorian) for more than 10 years to make Cyberpunk (about the lore, the story, Night City, the characters, even the weapons design/look...). I think, exactly like they did with The Witcher before

On a side note, I don't think the cdpr's shares "collapsed" have something to do with the story itself and even less with V's death at the end... As reminder, Cyberpunk was awarded on Steam as "2021 Outstanding Story-Rich Game" by players. So I believe, in "general", players enjoyed Cyberpunk's story (probably not some other things like bugs/issues/bad performances, for sure...).

But still, CDPR always made not quite simple plot games and in the night city and game, at least for me, there's a lot of plot and game mechanic questions.
Too many misterious things in game, which I don't wanna see like simple "Bug" or "Broken Mechanic"
Like the sixth skill tree, which giltching and nobody knows there supposed to be something, but they cut it or it's works the way they wanted? Or question with cards in menu. Why the third one stops at 40%? If it's measurment of V's corruption by engram, why that's enough for body, to refuse V? Why there's no possibility to influence on that parameter, like with Johny's relations or ours reputation? Again, bug or feature?
I believe, that there's always could be some closed content, which nobody still have found yet.
It is possible, that there's could be a small chance, that players missed something, isn't it?
So, DLC with world improvements is good, but it's better to make the story a little bit wider and answer some questions...

 

[LeKill3rFou]

But still, CDPR always made not quite simple plot games and in the night city and game, at least for me, there's a lot of plot and game mechanic questions.
Too many misterious things in game, which I don't wanna see like simple "Bug" or "Broken Mechanic"
Like the sixth skill tree, which giltching and nobody knows there supposed to be something, but they cut it or it's works the way they wanted? Or question with cards in menu. Why the third one stops at 40%? If it's measurment of V's corruption by engram, why that's enough for body, to refuse V? Why there's no possibility to influence on that parameter, like with Johny's relations or ours reputation? Again, bug or feature?

If we keep talking about Mike Pondsmith and the lore, not sure he was really involved in the "gameplay" mechanic.
But,
For "info", the "sixth" skill tree, it was, like it's possible see in the 2018 gameplay video the attribute "strength", which most probably become very recently, a skill (Athletics) in the body attribute tree. So more than a "cut", it's more a "rework"

About the Relic %, it advances in stages because indeed it's not a time-based game (so it advances with quests) and it's the how far biochip change V's body, and nor V nor Johnny can't do anything about it. Not sure but I believe that during the endings, you reach 60% which is already quite "high" (60% of V is no longer "V").

But yes, for various reasons some content were dropped (shortened or "cut"), but the story itself didn't really change in my opinion