[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[Didacgomez]

Maybe Nomads in the general lore are more nuanced, but the Aldecaldos aren't. Panam (the soul of the Aldecaldos storyline) explicitly left the tribe because of the deals Saul wanted to make with corps. Whatever lore reason they have for having less body mods than anyone else, it's not an accident that the most "human" looking group exists outside the city and inundates you with campfires and acoustic guitars. It IS hamfisted.

Just quickly recount you met Claire without implants-wait she works in Afterlife?,without implants...-, budhist monks, several groups in the city claiming against the use of implant in public squares. Is not that putting an implant is compulsory (ripperdocs also seem quite implant light, with one basically warning you against), getting implants actually can help you to get a job so there is some "social" ladder in there.
They should have reused a gang from tabletop:"The Inquisitors", that they were roaming NC hunting people with visible cyberimplants because they were corrupting their flesh (they weren't very good friends with Maelstrom,for obvious reasons).
There were players of the game, that decided to go with minimal implants and I saw some people complaining that you are already forced to eyes and link... its just a philosophy.
But well, if you don´t like Nomads then nothing to discuss.

sequel should be looking at adding things that wouldn't work that well with V. New features, perhaps more role based content, like rockerboys, media, fixers, nomads, netrunner.

This I will bet a coffee that they tried already and didn´t succeed and is why you ended up with this flexible class character. There is a sequence in-game that you have 4 archetypes at the same time: a rockerboy(Johnny),a Solo(Rogue),a Media(Thompson) and a Nomad(Santiago)... that sequence will have played the same if you changed view to Rogue or Thompson, only difference is that if they would have taken "class" abilities technically 90% of the kills would have been done by Rogue. I found very difficult to put in a single-player game, the mechanics of the tabletop archetypes (I mean a high level rockerboy in theory is able to command an army of fans to wipe-out a city-like Dethklok in Metapocalypse-).

but a popular protagonist is a big asset in an intellectual property both narratively and financially.

I know, personally I get bored of those franchises with a single-character but I know I'm minority here. Still, the problem is how you keep "levels,equipment" and such moving on (do you force a reset of stats/attributes?)... was also one of the reasons than in tabletop you tend to "retire" your characters, its not that fun when you level-up too much.

Regardless of whether V is still in the game, assuming they don't go with some totally "alternate history" storytelling, then the big differences will still have to be accounted for by the next game. Star, Sun and Devil will all have continuity differences in a sequel that have to be accounted for. With or without V.

Back in the day (old man yelling at cloud moment), it was possible for a developer to pick a canon ending without that much trouble and drama.

 

[Rawls]

Back in the day (old man yelling at cloud moment), it was possible for a developer to pick a canon ending without that much trouble and drama.

I'm still hoping Bioware just tells us that Destroy is canon ending for ME3 ... so I strongly agree here generally. There's definitely something to be said for definitive endings.

 

[OG_VELI]

V said something along the lines ''I'm tired of fighting, Johnny.'' and ''Don't ever forget me.''.

What made me think that it was bugged out was the fact that when the camera spun around while dropping in the void it was Johnny standing on the ledge and not V.

See, that's the thing. If you picked the first option in Pistis Sophia that I talked about in my previous post, V clearly wants Johnny to have the body in Mikoshi. V even appreciates Johnny taking the body if you let him.

As for Johnny standing on the ledge, well, that's how it's supposed to be because Johnny was in control the entire time during Rogue's path. I thought that was pretty obvious, no?

 

[exxxed]

See, that's the thing. If you picked the first option in Pistis Sophia that I talked about in my previous post, V clearly wants Johnny to have the body in Mikoshi. V even appreciates Johnny taking the body if you let him.

I see, yeah I can understand how that would make sense now.

I was just under the impression that for the most part both Johnny and V agreed that V was the one to have the body and Johnny came to terms with being ''erased''.

As for Johnny standing on the ledge, well, that's how it's supposed to be because Johnny was in control the entire time during Rogue's path. I thought that was pretty obvious, no?

I was just basing that impression on the previous endings, where crossing the bridge going into the beam of data meant joining Alt and diving in the well meant returning to the body so that's why I was confused as to what the heck was happening.

Because V jumping in the data stream meant that they were the ones going with Alt and Johnny remaining meant going down the well.

Seems that sequence changed in this ending since there is no well and it was never mentioned.

 

[wright1978]

I'm still hoping Bioware just tells us that Destroy is canon ending for ME3 ... so I strongly agree here generally. There's definitely something to be said for definitive endings.

Always had more mixed feels regarding canonising ME3 ending. My tolerance would vary greatly depending on how it was implemented.
I wouldn't really have the same objection in Cyberpunk but maybe that's because i despise the current endings.

 

[OG_VELI]

I was just under the impression that for the most part both Johnny and V agreed that V was the one to have the body and Johnny came to terms with being ''erased''.

Yeah, he agrees to get wiped for V, but then V can tell him they'll do the same. So It's like a two-way street.

Seems that sequence changed in this ending since there is no well and it was never mentioned.

There's always a well behind you, even if you don't let Johnny take the body. You can also enter it if you want because it's an optional objective (same for the bridge, depending on what you pick when choosing who keeps the body), in case you didn't notice.

 

[nadsh]

Always had more mixed feels regarding canonising ME3 ending. My tolerance would vary greatly depending on how it was implemented.
I wouldn't really have the same objection in Cyberpunk but maybe that's because i despise the current endings.

Destroy is the least atrocious ME3 ending to me so I'd be fine with that, not so much in Cyberpunk. As far as V is concerned the epilogues are pretty similar, most characters are alive and the 6 months time limit is the same. Doubt Arasaka's state would play a crucial role.

In general I think we're a little past the need to canonize world states in RPGs unless they're drastically different, most modern games handled player choices fine in sequels/expansions. Can't say I enjoyed seeing my characters an their choices getting butchered 9 times out of 10 in early RPGs (playing female characters especially).

 

[exxxed]

There's always a well behind you, even if you don't let Johnny take the body. You can also enter it if you want because it's an optional objective (same for the bridge, depending on what you pick when choosing who keeps the body), in case you didn't notice.

My point was that the perspective changes to V's and V is the one falling in the data stream suggesting that they're going with Alt regardless.

In my point of view it should have been V staying back on the ledge and we should have seen Johnny flying off into the data stream from V's PoV -the objective would have been to get into the well after that.

Or if they wanted us to experience it from Johnny's PoV then V should have been on the ledge.

 

[Guest 4412420]

I'm probably in a minority when it comes to Mass Effect series as I was hoping for Andromeda sequel. It's not a great game but moving the series to a different galaxy was a good decision because it eliminated the need to pick canon ending for the og trilogy.

I also think it was simpler back in the day to pick a canon ending because usually, games mostly offered good or bad endings and most people went for the good ones. With Cyberpunk for example, it's more complicated than that.

 

[rippercityransom]

I'm probably in a minority when it comes to Mass Effect series as I was hoping for Andromeda sequel. It's not a great game but moving the series to a different galaxy was a good decision because it eliminated the need to pick canon ending for the og trilogy.

I'm in your boat. I didn't hate Andromeda because after the endings I was done with the OT. Picking an ending to be canon for this upcoming sequel would just kick up a fresh round of "what did I even play the original game for?", not unlike if they picked a canon ending for V. It'd be like playing from someone else's save file.

 

[Rawls]

I linked the other Mass Effect thread above so that if anyone else wanted to discuss it specifically, they could do so in the appropriate thread - Mass Effect 5.

Other options - Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect 3, Poll: What are your thoughts on Mass Effect 3?, and etc.

Let's keep this one on topic please.

 

[Didacgomez]

Doubt Arasaka's state would play a crucial role.

Don´t know the deal between CDPR and Pondsmith (he mentioned somewhere that he was not "giving his baby", so I don´t know how much CDPR can change the world setting even if the timelines don´t overlap), but really Arasaka is a major NPC in this universe. From the Corporate book 1 of CP2020(its 2077, but you will find that still is introduced in game in a similar fashion):

You don´t need to play against Arasaka every single time, but until they completely destroy it... its a major world player (and by definition evil). And its why the "devil" ending sounds as "bad" ending in any conceivable way.

 

[SirKraeutereule]

I don´t really follow you here...Why V should give a shit about a list of people that he steals and what is MBE going to do with that data? I mean, he is a mercenary and in this particular ending is the best mercenary in NC. By definition, you do jobs for money, there are few fixers jobs that you do exactly that : stole information, you don´t know in some cases how/by who is going to be used.
Is why the whole MBE theory, kind of fails to me because is based on a sighting and some optional content. MBE maybe was just observing V, because he was planning a big operation and wanted to be sure to hire the best.
Other option of course,is that V knows how this data is going to be used but he doesn´t care for a promise of a cure (although then it feels like devil ending and this ending are not that different).

V is a merc not a NGO, in Cyberpunk morality systems are blurred there is no clear good/evil (I mean technically, you are a qualified assasin...)

Exactly, you are the best mercenary in Night City. You are the legend and king of Afterlife in Night City. Not in the world. That would be the next step and probably what a fame-focused V would be after with the casino heist. If that's the case I agree with you, you probably wouldn't ask about details because all you want is to be remembered, even if you die whilst achieving it.
But such a big decision should be up to the player and shouldn't be decided by the game, especially because CDPR is well aware of the fact that there were various reasons of why players picked The Sun ending instead of one of the others. Fame was only one of them and every single reason was mentioned one way or another by Johnny or someone else throughout the whole game. So, CDPR knows about them.

What they also know is that they put Mr. Blue-Eyes during the "Dream On" job whilst you get called by someone/something who makes it pretty clear you are being watched and should butt out. Butt out from a job during which you find out that a certain group is able to alter human minds, thoughts, memories, and so on. Not far away you can see Mr. Blue-Eyes, the same guy who later pops up to give you a job to steal the client list of the casino in the Crystal Palace. That's not a coincidence because otherwise they could have simply picked a random person but no, they specifically chose to make Mr. B your contact.
As far as I know the wealthiest and most important people on earth, including corporations live and/or work in the Crystal Palace so it's pretty obvious who the clients of the casino are. Also, we don't know what Mr. B means with "data" in the first place and what they entail. Only the names? Or more than that? Doesn't matter 'cause at the end V gives him a list with data of the wealthiest and most important people on earth. All in one place. People that would be strategically clever to control, just like Peralez. Mhm, how convenient...

Again, if you are a fame-focused V, you probably wouldn't care about all that but every other V probably would. They would at least ask the question concerning what Mr. B wants to do with this list and data. We are not talking about clients from some little random dealer in Night City, maybe we are even talking about world leaders here. And if you saw him during the Peralez storyline or remember "the men in black suits with blue eyes" from Gary's storyline you might even make your own horrible assumptions already. And yet, you can't ask anything because V isn't bothered by Mr. B's deal (anymore). Every V who isn't only focused on fame intends to come back alive (again, my V even promised Kerry that), which means they have to deal with the outcome one day, whether it's good or bad. So, you would at least ask of what you can expect here. But V doesn't. You as a player don't have the option either. You can't even decline and choose to just die in peace.

So yes, I do believe that V already knows what's going on which is why we have no choice in that matter at all.

Here you beat me, you have few 10's of hours more than me in playing the game... but I didn´t notice V helping the city ? V is a mercenary that do all his/her jobs for fame/money or to get some personal interest (a romance, will be weird to ask a fee to your romantic interest). I might have missed some optional content that allows you to improve the living conditions of NC citizens, sometimes you do some good (freeing some immigrants, killing a snuff producer...) but is a side-effect of your line of business I think.

Well, the city is nothing without its people in the first place and the ones who pull the strings are mostly fixers, gangs, corpos as well as the rich and famous. And those are the people you help during your game in whatever way. The reason why you did it doesn't matter because at the end of the day you helped them. There are various gigs during which you can get rid of whatver NC spit out like the infamous father/son duo. Or you can help out with all the Cyberpsychos around NC to make the streets a little bit safer. The same goes for the 150 NCPD gigs. So yes, you CAN help the city but only if you want to.

As Streetkid, if I recall correctly, you already left once NC and tried another town (Atlanta?) where it didn´t work for you and you are giving another chance to NC; as a legend of Afterlife you decided to be the legend, so obviously you don´t leave... it doesn´t imply that you will be happy, even nowadays people at high positions tend to be more lonely than people at lower end of the social scale is the price you pay for success.

For the romance/ending and whether they stay or not, I think that they wrote the story that they wanted to tell (I know, some people doesn´t like it) without romancing in mind; then they add romances based on quest givers (not all quest givers are romanceable I know) but the NPCs have already a defined character so they might not fit the endings that they had in mind. Some people in some other thread was suggesting like "all NPCs be bisexual", personally I´m against this because I prefer NPCs with a well defined personality and sexual orientation if dealt in the game is part of the character... stil with the all bisexual, I have a friend that she lives in a polyamorous relationship she will not have been represented (why you cannot date both Peralez?).

Yes, that's right Streetkid V left and came back shortly before the prologue I think but you still grew up there and you also know how to handle yourself. On top of that, you are rich, wealthy, famous and have a fancy title but that's not everything and if I'm wrong with everything I said up above CDPR obviously forgot about that. Because apart from all that you already have a family, friends, partner, lots of connections and acquaintances but apparently even the best of the best can't help you since the game suddenly decided that only the Aldecaldos know how to get the wonder weapon called "have a happy life".

But until I don't have a confirmation for a definite death, I will give CDPR the benefit of the doubt and believe that my V knows what he is doing and will come back one day. Jackie and Johnny trusted in V, now I will do the same.

 

[Didacgomez]

Exactly, you are the best mercenary in Night City. You are the legend and king of Afterlife in Night City. Not in the world. That would be the next step and probably what a fame-focused V would be after with the casino heist. If that's the case I agree with you, you probably wouldn't ask about details because all you want is to be remembered, even if you die whilst achieving it.
But such a big decision should be up to the player and shouldn't be decided by the game, especially because CDPR is well aware of the fact that there were various reasons of why players picked The Sun ending instead of one of the others. Fame was only one of them and every single reason was mentioned one way or another by Johnny or someone else throughout the whole game. So, CDPR knows about them.

What they also know is that they put Mr. Blue-Eyes during the "Dream On" job whilst you get called by someone/something who makes it pretty clear you are being watched and should butt out. Butt out from a job during which you find out that a certain group is able to alter human minds, thoughts, memories, and so on. Not far away you can see Mr. Blue-Eyes, the same guy who later pops up to give you a job to steal the client list of the casino in the Crystal Palace. That's not a coincidence because otherwise they could have simply picked a random person but no, they specifically chose to make Mr. B your contact.
As far as I know the wealthiest and most important people on earth, including corporations live and/or work in the Crystal Palace so it's pretty obvious who the clients of the casino are. Also, we don't know what Mr. B means with "data" in the first place and what they entail. Only the names? Or more than that? Doesn't matter 'cause at the end V gives him a list with data of the wealthiest and most important people on earth. All in one place. People that would be strategically clever to control, just like Peralez. Mhm, how convenient...

Again, if you are a fame-focused V, you probably wouldn't care about all that but every other V probably would. They would at least ask the question concerning what Mr. B wants to do with this list and data. We are not talking about clients from some little random dealer in Night City, maybe we are even talking about world leaders here. And if you saw him during the Peralez storyline or remember "the men in black suits with blue eyes" from Gary's storyline you might even make your own horrible assumptions already. And yet, you can't ask anything because V isn't bothered by Mr. B's deal (anymore). Every V who isn't only focused on fame intends to come back alive (again, my V even promised Kerry that), which means they have to deal with the outcome one day, whether it's good or bad. So, you would at least ask of what you can expect here. But V doesn't. You as a player don't have the option either. You can't even decline and choose to just die in peace.

So yes, I do believe that V already knows what's going on which is why we have no choice in that matter at all.



Well, the city is nothing without its people in the first place and the ones who pull the strings are mostly fixers, gangs, corpos as well as the rich and famous. And those are the people you help during your game in whatever way. The reason why you did it doesn't matter because at the end of the day you helped them. There are various gigs during which you can get rid of whatver NC spit out like the infamous father/son duo. Or you can help out with all the Cyberpsychos around NC to make the streets a little bit safer. The same goes for the 150 NCPD gigs. So yes, you CAN help the city but only if you want to.



Yes, that's right Streetkid V left and came back shortly before the prologue I think but you still grew up there and you also know how to handle yourself. On top of that, you are rich, wealthy, famous and have a fancy title but that's not everything and if I'm wrong with everything I said up above CDPR obviously forgot about that. Because apart from all that you already have a family, friends, partner, lots of connections and acquaintances but apparently even the best of the best can't help you since the game suddenly decided that only the Aldecaldos know how to get the wonder weapon called "have a happy life".

But until I don't have a confirmation for a definite death, I will give CDPR the benefit of the doubt and believe that my V knows what he is doing and will come back one day. Jackie and Johnny trusted in V, now I will do the same.

Even if I can agree that sun ending is not equal to dying(its my perception,but I can be completely wrong),really you are twisting a lot V's job and who V is in the world. You work as a mercenary,you don't need to be deployed in an army to be a mercenary.
All the NCPD works,you don't do out of civic responsability you are just doing a contract job for police as a bounty hunter and you get paid in money,reputation and loot. Why do you think,you are dealing with gangs , fixers,smugglers? Because you are part of the criminal underworld.Or are you saying,that V participated in the Heist(and all fixer and NCPD jobs you can do before) because he is a nice person that wants to improve the city?
For Kerry in the sun,I didn't play that option but it wouldn't be that strange to me that somebody lies a loved one("everything is gonna be ok" sounds better than "don't wait me for dinner,because I will be bleeding to death")-but once more,my perception you get another feeling and thats fine-.
I don't think that V will ask a lot of details to MBE if he is fame focused or not.
If V just wants to go in a "blaze of glory",he will not ask details it seems that we agree.
If V doesn't want to die(not my feeling,but thats ok) and knows about Peralez/dorsett/gary/saw MBE(which i think is all optional content,not required for that ending) and MBE promised a cure(which we don't know) then V again will not care about the data at all,because is his/her only chance to survive(it means that once more,in a possible follow-up V destiny is not controlled by V-which can make a good story also-).

 

[Guest 4412420]

For Kerry in the sun,I didn't play that option but it wouldn't be that strange to me that somebody lies a loved one("everything is gonna be ok" sounds better than "don't wait me for dinner,because I will be bleeding to death")-but once more,my perception you get another feeling and thats fine-.

There are two dialogue options to choose from that decides if V promises Kerry or not.
1. "We still have some time left."
2. "We both know how this ends, Ker. Sorry. Didn't plan it this way."
He promises in the first, and says nothing in the second even though Kerry still says "... but you gotta come back." If the promise was mandatory I'd be inclined to agree V does it to make Kerry feel better, but it's not. It's behind the line of dialogue which specifically focuses on the time they have left together so, I believe it's a genuine promise and that V wants to come back.

If V doesn't want to die(not my feeling,but thats ok) and knows about Peralez/dorsett/gary/saw MBE(which i think is all optional content,not required for that ending) and MBE promised a cure(which we don't know) then V again will not care about the data at all,because is his/her only chance to survive

There's an email from Vik in the space shuttle right before the 3rd person cutscene starts where it's revealed that V tried to get some information on Mr. Blue Eyes but Vik found nothing. V wouldn't have asked Vik to waste his time by trying to get intel on Mr. Blue Eyes at all if they planned to die gloriously in space because there would be no point.

But I do agree that the way the scene with Mr. Blue Eyes plays out, V doesn't seem to care what he will do with the data but as you yourself said V has several other things to prioritize over powerful elite types. It works for my V, but a dialogue option to ask would have been nice, even if you obviously wouldn't get a clear answer.

 

[Didacgomez]

There are two dialogue options to choose from that decides if V promises Kerry or not.
1. "We still have some time left."
2. "We both know how this ends, Ker. Sorry. Didn't plan it this way."
He promises in the first, and says nothing in the second even though Kerry still says "... but you gotta come back." If the promise was mandatory I'd be inclined to agree V does it to make Kerry feel better, but it's not. It's behind the line of dialogue which specifically focuses on the time they have left together so, I believe it's a genuine promise and that V wants to come back.


There's an email from Vik in the space shuttle right before the 3rd person cutscene starts where it's revealed that V tried to get some information on Mr. Blue Eyes but Vik found nothing. They're not rushing into the heist headfirst. I do agree that the way the scene with Mr. Blue Eyes plays out, V doesn't seem to care what he will do with the data. It works for my V, but a dialogue option to ask would have been nice, even if you obviously wouldn't get a clear answer.

Thanks for the heads up with Kerry dialog,I wonder how it works with Judy/Panam and not with a NPC that is quite clear wants to stay in the city. I'm still convinced,that romance is not determining factor in the endings that is an addon-on after they wrote the endings ( I did run sun as a loner,and except the dialog is the same).
It was clear that the Crystal Palace run was not overnight planned,Claire mentions that rumours have been going on for a while and that people want to know(not sure her exact words).If V is fixer/merc, will not feel weird that he tries to find information of somebody (Dex wanted to know about V also).
But indeed,too much ambiguity to make any strong statements in one or other direction.

 

[Yllana_Ardais]

Okay, so the patch notes for 1.2 are here. As expected, nothing really content related except for this:

The "One more gig" message will no longer be displayed when the game ends and there is no Point of No Return save.

Makes me slightly hopeful that the planned expansion will indeed continue the game after the ending and will continue V's story. Am I grasping at straws?

 

[Didacgomez]

Okay, so the patch notes for 1.2 are here. As expected, nothing really content related except for this:

The "One more gig" message will no longer be displayed when the game ends and there is no Point of No Return save.

Makes me slightly hopeful that the planned expansion will indeed continue the game after the ending and will continue V's story. Am I grasping at straws?

And nobody is complaining that they will need to re-load a previous save because they are punishing players that took a wrong decision or that they didn't like their ending? There is still hope in humanity.
It seems the case since it would seem weird to have follow-up and point of no-return time travel at the same time,also might suggest that endings merging is going on (but cyberspace,suicide ehem).

Post automatically merged: Mar 29, 2021

https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...d-after-the-ending.11055272/#js-post-12429773
The way that is written ( end game and no save),might be related to that bug.

 

[Buckadoz]

Okay, so the patch notes for 1.2 are here. As expected, nothing really content related except for this:

The "One more gig" message will no longer be displayed when the game ends and there is no Point of No Return save.

Makes me slightly hopeful that the planned expansion will indeed continue the game after the ending and will continue V's story. Am I grasping at straws?

This feels more like a bug workaround than anything about DLC. I guess this also indirectly prevents anyone from getting the item rewards some endings had, which is strange.

It might mean something if it went into a post-MC free roam instead of a "load a previous save", but that isn't going to happen because so many quests have Johnny dialogue that they can't easily excise. That's also one of the things that make me skeptical of any post-MC DLC at all.

 

[Yllana_Ardais]

Actually, no. They can simply switch Johhny's dialogue in quests on and off at least in the early quests. There are quests in Watson in the beginning you can do before you meet Johnny and you can also do them afterwards, they just switch his dialogue on and off. Pretty sure this works for all sidequests except maybe for the ones with Kerry.
Anyway, I wanna think positive for a change!