Both are witcher swords but looks like i did read something not totally accurate.
Okay, I watched the video, and Damien knew the issue completely, but still said it worked okay. I wasn't really convinced, but if they've thought about it then it might be okay.
I still maintain that upscaling is better. And I am not maintaining a 'my way or high way' attitude. Discussions can perfectly end in an 'agree to disagree' way. And there is nothing wrong with that.
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Yeah, I think you've explained your point well here. I can see your perspective. I didn't think having a choice would actually sour your experience. As an analogy, I see non-upscaling as a console that is stuck with 30fps, while upscaling as a PC that has the options of both 30fps and 60fps.
Anyway. After seeing Damien's video, he seemed to understand the crux of the issue, but still said that it worked fine. So, let's just see how it ends up being when the game releases. And even if worst comes to worst, one can always look up guides to avoid ruining some strong late game weapons.
Ah, I misunderstood you when you said "Witcher sword". I assume you meant one made of meteorite. I assume that those will need to be crafted. We did see a basic steel sword come out of a chest.
Okay so I just thought it over some more. Downscaling will not be an issue in case you will not be able to obtain epic loot that easily. Or if the loot is usually not much downscaled by the time you find it. I.e. If you can barely deal with lvl 20 monsters when you are level 18, the downscale won't be that much. Which I can live with. Then again this being an open world, I would assume that you can find loot that is a lot higher level than intended. If it weren't then the whole 'level requirement thing' would not have been implemented inthe first place.
My only concern is that when I get to level cap, there are still legendary swords to acquire in their full glory.
So long as that remains true, then downscaled vs non-downscaled is a complete non-issue for me.
Upscaled, after considerable thought, is something that I would not want to see in the game. Given the huge number of different types of armor, weapons, etc that we've seen on display, upscaling feels to me like it would quickly turn into a problem of having a great weapon/armor for a dozen or two dozen hours and automatically disregarding any loot you find as automatically inferior until you've reached the end of the scaling point.
In any case, the game has gone gold, and I expect CDPR or some beautiful modder out there to make sure when I finally reach the peak of my power in TW3, there will be a sword there to really make me feel like it's worthy of my Geralt.
So long as that remains true, then downscaled vs non-downscaled is a complete non-issue for me.
Upscaled, after considerable thought, is something that I would not want to see in the game. Given the huge number of different types of armor, weapons, etc that we've seen on display, upscaling feels to me like it would quickly turn into a problem of having a great weapon/armor for a dozen or two dozen hours and automatically disregarding any loot you find as automatically inferior until you've reached the end of the scaling point.
In any case, the game has gone gold, and I expect CDPR or some beautiful modder out there to make sure when I finally reach the peak of my power in TW3, there will be a sword there to really make me feel like it's worthy of my Geralt.
Downscaling and level requirements are completely no sense.
There is already a limitation for that items, which is represented by the mob, the enemy, the monster itself. Monsters don't scale, so that it is already a requirement.
There is already a limitation for that items, which is represented by the mob, the enemy, the monster itself. Monsters don't scale, so that it is already a requirement.
Have an option at the start of the game to choose between level requirement loot and no requirement downscale.
This is obviously a point of contention with both sides.
It got me thinking that because the level requirement system is already made and the devs recently changed the system, therefore both systems already exist.
Their should be an option when starting a new game.
I would like to know your thoughts on this.
This is obviously a point of contention with both sides.
It got me thinking that because the level requirement system is already made and the devs recently changed the system, therefore both systems already exist.
Their should be an option when starting a new game.
I would like to know your thoughts on this.
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Ditto... If the loot is adequate (If it isn't no system is good) then they all are pretty much the same large picture.I don't care either way, i just want to play the game ..
Level requirement: Would mean you are holding onto many items you can't use until you can use them
Downscaling without upscaling: You replace you items often and sale the old items (who keeps talking about spending resources? You don't have to or will make up for it if system is done adequately)
Downscaling with upscaling to item level: You use the same item for many level and instead of selling it you sell all other items... (Same result overall as above)
The only option that doesn't bode well in any game (FOR ME) is all items upscaling with player level without a cap. That just turns into get one item and use it forever. Why even have different items at that point?
I'm sure it's been mentioned but here's what I think about this weapon scaling thing:
First, I think it's actually cool, finding a special weapon after a challenging fight and not being able to use it is kind of anti-climatic - although it's arguable that eventually reaching the specific level it requires might be satisfying - so I think it's not a totally bad idea.
Second, I don't understand why the weapon doesn't level up with you. I mean it would make sense, you're not skilled enough to use it effectively when you're lower than it's required level, but you can still use it with slightly worse stats. But eventually, when you have the required level you definitely should be able to take the best out of it (a.k.a. the stats it originally intended to have).
I'm not sure how well the current system's gonna work, I bet patches will be needed for proper balance.
Then maybe they should've kept the original system, most people won't be able to kill / bother with killing monsters that are way too strong for Geralt. And satisfaction still comes from when you finally reach the level needed and equip the item.
We shall see, this just shows how hard is to balance systems like these in an open world game.
First, I think it's actually cool, finding a special weapon after a challenging fight and not being able to use it is kind of anti-climatic - although it's arguable that eventually reaching the specific level it requires might be satisfying - so I think it's not a totally bad idea.
Second, I don't understand why the weapon doesn't level up with you. I mean it would make sense, you're not skilled enough to use it effectively when you're lower than it's required level, but you can still use it with slightly worse stats. But eventually, when you have the required level you definitely should be able to take the best out of it (a.k.a. the stats it originally intended to have).
I'm not sure how well the current system's gonna work, I bet patches will be needed for proper balance.
That is a very good point, though... :huh:
Then maybe they should've kept the original system, most people won't be able to kill / bother with killing monsters that are way too strong for Geralt. And satisfaction still comes from when you finally reach the level needed and equip the item.
We shall see, this just shows how hard is to balance systems like these in an open world game.
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To use that analogy, upscaling to me means I'm with a PC all the time, while locking weapons means that eventually I'll get that delicious moment of upgrading from console to PC.
Anyway, we've both made our points. I'm sorry that each of my posts was a bit more heated than the previous, with that last one being particularly aggressive
That's when I know it's time to back off because I'm getting emotional over an internet discussion about weapon requirements in a game. So that's it for me in this thread. See you in the next one.@misho8723 The interviewer said at pickup but I don't think a RED has clarified it yet. It be odd though to do it at time of equip..
Quote: "Once you pick up an item, its stats are set, so it won’t scale back up to its original stats. That said, you’ll always get better loot as you move forward anyway. There’s no need to wait to be the right level before you get an item."
The above IMO mean that the loot will be given adequately so as I mentioned above with or without upscaling to orig item level is a moot point... If it is true...
Quote: "Once you pick up an item, its stats are set, so it won’t scale back up to its original stats. That said, you’ll always get better loot as you move forward anyway. There’s no need to wait to be the right level before you get an item."
The above IMO mean that the loot will be given adequately so as I mentioned above with or without upscaling to orig item level is a moot point... If it is true...
In either case they should share some more detail on how the system works. It seems the confusion is causing people to make connections with other games like Oblivion that did item scaling poorly.
Hm,
as long as none of the RED's gives us more concrete information this is all gonna be based on assumptions, which makes a discussion kinda difficult.
My POV:
I get the problem, but the "common player" does not take 10+deaths to ticklekill an obviously too high level monster. the comon guy might get aggrovated by the fact, that after he "wasted" so much time, he got "useless" loot (which is not always gonna be the case - think ingredients, money, xp, etc).
The "psychopath" player who will take the challenge, will be like "yeah! got the kill" and maybe be like "whow, this is cool - this could actually be something to build a skillset around". The planning part is the same sort of satisfaction the grindkill brings. Remember in DiabloII the feeling when building a Frozen Orb Sorc, for example? when reaching Level 32 (Iirc) and immediatle dumping a lot of saved skillpoints and finally being able to actually contribute to the party, growing super powerful in the next few levels and thinking "phuh, now it's time to go shed some blood"?
I get the need of somehow balancing the world, not only against stealing and "lucking out" on stuff - it will keep the story more immersive, make the player more predictable and thus the game more "coherent", etc...
Now, I understand the (very commendable and indeed necessary) idea of wanting to kinda encourage and directly reward the lucky grinder or skillful player. I just do not get why the weapon would not scale up to the "original" stats then, as in m first playthrough if I find a weapon through a grindkill that would inspire me to change my tactis, I'll be like - "well shit, shoulda knew this drop earlier and killed way later". This makes the original incentive for the challenging beasts - e.g. really unique and cool loot a very double edged and (in the beginning of the game's life) a very unpredictable sword (its a pun).
The obvious solution (which I feel might actually be implemented) is to make the weapon scale back to it's original state. That would give a real boost to the charater after the kill, lower the risk of running into the perfect ger too early for proper application, and really heavily motivate to accept a challenge - as you are guaranteed to be able to use the loot without risk. All while keeping the balance relatively intact.
If the gear dropped is not at least partiall "unique" in some way and easil replacable, why really bother killing (even later?) - this will again lock the "common" player they wanted to include into this cycle of testing your skills out (as the pushing ingredient is missing). If the loot is unique, the "planners" might end up avoiding the bigger monsters alltogether until a certain level is reached, but then you'll be like "ah damn, cool gear but my skillset is a total mismatch".
Mght be cool for @Kinley to include this in the q&a?
as long as none of the RED's gives us more concrete information this is all gonna be based on assumptions, which makes a discussion kinda difficult.
My POV:
I get the problem, but the "common player" does not take 10+deaths to ticklekill an obviously too high level monster. the comon guy might get aggrovated by the fact, that after he "wasted" so much time, he got "useless" loot (which is not always gonna be the case - think ingredients, money, xp, etc).
The "psychopath" player who will take the challenge, will be like "yeah! got the kill" and maybe be like "whow, this is cool - this could actually be something to build a skillset around". The planning part is the same sort of satisfaction the grindkill brings. Remember in DiabloII the feeling when building a Frozen Orb Sorc, for example? when reaching Level 32 (Iirc) and immediatle dumping a lot of saved skillpoints and finally being able to actually contribute to the party, growing super powerful in the next few levels and thinking "phuh, now it's time to go shed some blood"?
I get the need of somehow balancing the world, not only against stealing and "lucking out" on stuff - it will keep the story more immersive, make the player more predictable and thus the game more "coherent", etc...
Now, I understand the (very commendable and indeed necessary) idea of wanting to kinda encourage and directly reward the lucky grinder or skillful player. I just do not get why the weapon would not scale up to the "original" stats then, as in m first playthrough if I find a weapon through a grindkill that would inspire me to change my tactis, I'll be like - "well shit, shoulda knew this drop earlier and killed way later". This makes the original incentive for the challenging beasts - e.g. really unique and cool loot a very double edged and (in the beginning of the game's life) a very unpredictable sword (its a pun).
The obvious solution (which I feel might actually be implemented) is to make the weapon scale back to it's original state. That would give a real boost to the charater after the kill, lower the risk of running into the perfect ger too early for proper application, and really heavily motivate to accept a challenge - as you are guaranteed to be able to use the loot without risk. All while keeping the balance relatively intact.
If the gear dropped is not at least partiall "unique" in some way and easil replacable, why really bother killing (even later?) - this will again lock the "common" player they wanted to include into this cycle of testing your skills out (as the pushing ingredient is missing). If the loot is unique, the "planners" might end up avoiding the bigger monsters alltogether until a certain level is reached, but then you'll be like "ah damn, cool gear but my skillset is a total mismatch".
Mght be cool for @Kinley to include this in the q&a?
I think a Q&A is done by now. Kinley said they were almost in the translation phase a week ago.
even if it scales down to your level, a strong sword is still gonna be a strong sword, so it's not like you are not getting any rewards. if you defeat the hardest monster you have ever fought you may get the best weapon you ever had. that's a reward the way I see it.
as for that sword leveling with you for a long time: didn't they say that you can only repair damaged equipment a few times? if yes, then you might wear it out before it reaches its max level. and if you don't use it until it gets there then that's pretty much the same as the level restrictions. you get awesome loot that you can't use for a long while.
I don't think there is a single solution that everyone likes and also doesn't ruin the balance of the game. cdpr had to choose one.
as for that sword leveling with you for a long time: didn't they say that you can only repair damaged equipment a few times? if yes, then you might wear it out before it reaches its max level. and if you don't use it until it gets there then that's pretty much the same as the level restrictions. you get awesome loot that you can't use for a long while.
I don't think there is a single solution that everyone likes and also doesn't ruin the balance of the game. cdpr had to choose one.
@lord_blex I don't think I remember reading about this "You can only repair your sword a limited amount of time" thing. I'm thinking that is probably the case if we are trying to repair it by ourselves, with the repair kits. Blacksmiths should be able to repair as many times as we want, as far as I know.
hmm.. I seem to remember it for some reason, but can't find a source. maybe it was a different game brought up as comparison?
well if this is not the case then carrying the same weapon around for a while shouldn't be a problem. except that it reduces the need to look for new equipment - which some people might actually like. I think I like getting new stuff more frequently. Keeps things exciting.