Combat in The Witcher 3

[Cheylus]

Combat in The Witcher 3

In their latest interview with IGN India:

Speaking of action, could you maybe touch upon the game’s new combat system?

It's really tough to describe the combat system, as it is something you have to play and experience for yourself to fully understand. We're definitely looking at a more fluid combat system with Wild Hunt, where attacking an enemy feels more natural and smooth, unlike older games where you had to lock onto enemies constantly.

What we saw in Batman: Arkham Asylum is a very cool system, and I don't want to draw any comparisons, but that's definitely part of the motivation for us. I can make gamers a promise that combat in The Witcher 3 is already fun and that we're constantly balancing it till we hit that sweet spot.

That's not saying the combat system will be exactly like Batman: Arkham.
For a lot of players, the combat system in TW2 was a chore (not for me). The FCR didn't help much in my opinion, but it shows they know where are the flaws of their system.
One of their main focus this time is to make a satisfying combat system.

I love the combat system in Arkham games (and mostly everything about this series), but it's a system made for a 20/30 hours long game, and it feels very repetitive and boring in the end (it's also tied to enemy design, which is very redundant). And you can feel overpowered "too soon" if you have normal motricity...
I think it would fit Geralt's fighting style perfectly. I hope they will succeed at making their own "freeflow combat".

 

[Vigilance.492]

Honestly I simply don't know ... I could probably have an opinion if we got some kind of Gamepl- ....

There's some aspects about the Arkham system I can see being used in The Witcher & working well, but others I simply cannot imagine how it would possibly fit. I'm going to assume that are mostly just using the Arkham Games as a good point of reference to how combat should "Flow" & if that's mostly what they take away from it then great. The Arkham Games always had great fight pacing & flow.

 

[Aes Sídhe]

For a lot of players, the combat system in TW2 was a chore (not for me). The FCR didn't help much in my opinion, but it shows they know where are the flaws of their system.

Agreed completely. FCR, it seemed to me, simply unlocked the animations, so that Geralt did not need to finish a move - to the same duration as before - before making another strike. It looks smooth, and I can see how it can be adapted, but if TW3 combat is as easy, I will be desperately disappointed.

edit: I think, I hope, the point of comparison being made is primarily about the targeting, which in Batman is character direction & enemy proximity. I'd say TW2, without the lock, is screen view centre = target.

 

[sidspyker]

I really doubt they mean it's gonna be like Arkham since that wouldn't work at all, maybe they mean in terms of how freeflow it is because otherwise Batman like combat makes no sense in Witcher and CDPR aren't dumb.

 

[Zabanzo]

Lately I was thinking about this, and Im glad they took inspiration from batman combat, its really well done, its easy to switch between enemies and dodge attacks. I always thought that Geralt should fight like this, fast as lightning constantly on the move killing enemies in a blink of an eye...

BUT, more important facts were revealed in this interview, like system requirements and release date will be announced soon, and the game is indeed coming out this year!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cheylus]

How wouldn't it make sense? This is a combat system for melee (and a very good one).
Geralt has at least 5 powers to crowd control and uses grenades and knives. Batman has gadgets, grenades and batarangs to stun, harm, control the crowd.

Using grenades and knives in TW1 and 2 is not very useful (powers are a little more useful, but not all of them). Using gadgets is useful in B:A. That would make every aspects of combat worthwhile, without too much focus on swordsmanship "DPS", igni spam and quen.

The "Killing Monster" trailer may very well be an hint for this kind of fast-paced melee combat. The VGX trailer has two combat scenes which, to me at least, looked like freeflow combat (how Geralt goes from one target to another). In the first trailer he is seen fighting a big pack of 6 wolves or fighting 3 guys surrounding him (one in front, behind left, behind right). This last configuration is seen on a most "combat" screenshots. I wouldn't try to be at the center of an enemy formation with TW1 or TW2 combat system, but I would totally do it with freeflow combat. This combat system could get rid of roll spam, which plagues TW2.
I could totally see the fight against the fiend or the frost titan (don't know his little name) with the B:A combat system (look at some boss fights).

The only thing that concerns me is duels. I don't want any kind of QTE.

 

[sidspyker]

How wouldn't it make sense? This is a combat system for melee (and a very good one).
Geralt has at least 5 powers to crowd control and uses grenades and knives. Batman has gadgets, grenades and batarangs to stun, harm, control the crowd.
The "Killing Monster" trailer may very well be an hint for this kind of fast-paced melee combat. The VGX trailer has two combat scenes which, to me at least, looked like freeflow combat (how Geralt goes from one target to another). In the first trailer he is seen fighting a big pack of 6 wolves or fighting 3 guys surrounding him (one in front, behind left, behind right). This last configuration is seen on a most "combat" screenshots. I wouldn't try to be at the center of an enemy formation with TW1 or TW2 combat system, but I would totally do it with freeflow combat.

I wasn't talking about freeflow, I already said they're probably talking in terms of freeflow, what I meant was Batman's sort of arcade-y combat where 3 strikes knocks out people, that kind of a thing wouldn't fit and likely make the game easy.

And getting surrounded is never a good thing. If anything getting surrounded should increase the chance of getting beaten.

EDIT: It makes sense in Batman because most of the time we're a highly trained individual fighting a bunch of inmates or thugs.

 

[mclericp]

wow now we got this awesome combat system

The open world + this + many many other stuff

i hope CDPR's game doesnt break down. Because there is a lot of things that can go wrong here.

 

[Garrison72]

They took two things from AA - the auto distance-closing attacks and randomly generated moves. I feel they need to preserve both, but then tweak AI and give us better ways to confront groups up close. Once you got surrounded in TW2, your only option was to use Quen or roll away. Crowd control typically had to be dealt with from a distance be it bombs or leveled up Ignii, and this needs to change. they can still have aggressive AI, but they can't have every enemy type charging you the same way. This is what Dark Souls did better.

 

[Vigilance.492]

wow now we got this awesome combat system

The open world + this + many many other stuff

i hope CDPR's game doesnt break down. Because there is a lot of things that can go wrong here.

You still haven't actually SEEN the Combat properly, don't forget that.

They took two things from AA - the auto distance-closing attacks and randomly generated moves. I feel they need to preserve both, but then tweak AI and give us better ways to confront groups up close. Once you got surrounded in TW2, your only option was to use Quen or roll away. Crowd control typically had to be dealt with from a distance be it bombs or leveled up Ignii, and this needs to change. they can still have aggressive AI, but they can't have every enemy type charging you the same way. This is what Dark Souls did better.

I think that's where the second magic stuff is going to play the big role. Like they said if you hold down the Magic Button all signs have a second more powerful ability, I feel that's where this will be used. Like Aard looks like it'll do the AOE Explosion & Igni you could Set all the enemies in front of you ablaze & attack/run through them to get out ETC.

 

[val.mitev]

While the free flow aspect of Batmans' combat is great, I don't want to see Geralt fly around the battlefield like a bat, accelerating in the air like he has some turbo engine on his back.
The combat in Batman is too arcadey, and I don't want that, but I agree that we need the smooth transitions between enemies.

 

[Cheylus]

I wasn't talking about freeflow, I already said they're probably talking in terms of freeflow, what I meant was Batman's sort of arcade-y combat where 3 strikes knocks out people, that kind of a thing wouldn't fit and likely make the game easy.

And getting surrounded is never a good thing. If anything getting surrounded should increase the chance of getting beaten.

EDIT: It makes sense in Batman because most of the time we're a highly trained individual fighting a bunch of inmates or thugs.

Ok I didn't read your post well enough. Of course the "Batman against 100 crash test dummies" won't work for The Witcher, hence the need to tweak freeflow combat in order to sustain an interesting and long enough battle against little groups of enemies.

And I wasn't clear: no I won't "let myself" be surrounded. In TW2 nobody tries to flank Geralt. They always run straight to Geralt's sword; they think it's enough to outnumber, they don't plan to surround him. It's like they're fighting in a 2D games when Geralt is the only one who understands it's a 3D game (that's why roll spam is so valuable). Mages helped to break the monotony. The AI could better this time (less rushing, more flanking, and freeflow is nice against flanking).

 

[joykafka]

To be frank, the combat in the Batman started to be interesting but bored me to death very quickly. Even though I believe some of the concepts can be well implemented, as a whole I don't enjoy fighting in the Batman. I enjoyed the combat in the Witcher 2 much more, even with that maniacal rolling dodging issue. Suppose that was thanks to the brilliant skill systems, role playing, and excellent story lines, which couldn't be found in action oriented games like Batman.

In AC4 the black flag as well, the fighting soon became boring since it relies so much on quick time sequences. Quick response wins and that made the combat less fun. I prefer to think about the strategy, to move around and make use of the terrains, to try new weapons new medicines new combination of everything, not so much on the travelling speed of my nerves from brain to fingers.

In Wolf Among Us, this quicktime sequence is so heavily used that I don't feel like I am "playing" the game. The game goes on on its own and I was there just to press the right keys in time to make it play forward.

Quick time sequences used in certain cases / puzzles etc can bring a variety of fun, but for normal combats, we have left, right, up, down, jump, and that's enough.

This is off the topics, but I don't want the Wticher 3 look like Batman or Assassin's Creed at all. Please! Particularly those checking point mechanism that auto-sync'ed to the cloud, and those online multiplayer things.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

This game is so fucking awesome, holy crap I can't wait. CDPR is going to nail it!!

 

[DroolingDreamer]

I think he's referring to animation systems and the "flow" of combat, not the actual combat mechanics.

 

[Jack Bauer 24]

Nice! Thanks for sharing

 

[paulthu]

I stopped playing Arkham City partly because of the combat. It felt like quicktime events in disguise with the counter moves, I didn't feel like I was really in control of my character, I was only trying to press the button at the right time to win. I didn't like TW1 or TW2 combat either but I hope they wont be looking at the Arkham series for answers. Just give as much control to the player as possible, even if it won't look as pretty.

 

[octavian123]

I don't know about that. What I do know is that the combat system (and the gameplay in general) need a major makeover.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

The problem with Batman's system is that it doesnt have strafing, and if i recall correctly it also doesnt have dodge moves that can be performed in any direction, but i kind of forgot how it was.

In any case, its good that they want the fluidity of the combat in Batman, but i dont think they should look at it much, because Batman's combat is planned mainly for men, the witcher has a huge variety of different monsters, so it needs A LOT more mobility and hit and run tactics.

Batman can for the most part just stay in the middle of many enemies and kill them as they get closer, and that would be horrible for the witcher.

 

[shawn_kh]

CDPR can take some elements from the combat in Arkham series, for example the counter attacks. I don't think Geralt flying around the screen and hitting people would be a good idea though. Plus Arkham origins fights are too easy.
I'd really like to see a good counter attack system in Witcher 3 kind of like Arkham series but not as intruding, so the players don't have to roll around or dodge constantly.
For example Geralt is hitting an enemy, someone else attacks you from behind or even a group of enemies, you push the counter button on time and Geralt counters and attack them back. I think it's going to give the game a more cinematic aspect as well, if fast, realistic, and deadly sword moves are implemented.